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no time to spread the Vegemite on here

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we go this is the way we scraped it on

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spread their dong spread it on this is

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the way we spread it up for cheesy

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 96 for the 20th of august

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2010 Richard Saunders here with you once

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again from Sydney Australia episode 96

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good grief so it's about a month away

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until our big 100th show which all more

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or less coincide with our parents at

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dragoncon very shortly I will do a

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special birthday recording of the

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skeptic zone it'll be our two year

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anniversary all that's coming up but

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coming up on today's show we have an

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interview with bannerchek the famous

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Mentalist and magician now he's taken

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over at the James Randi Educational

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Foundation as the man responsible for

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looking after the 1 million dollar

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challenge more about Banacek soon and

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that'll be followed by a brief report

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from Canberra skeptics in the pub where

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last weekend dr. Rachel and I traveled

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down to give out talks I gave my talk on

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basic skepticism and dr. H she gave her

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doctor rachey reports talk after that

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it's dr. Reggie reports indeed looking

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once again at the latest shenanigans by

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those people at the anti-vaccination

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network and to wrap up the show we have

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the think tank a lengthy think tank

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today of lots of laughs a big thank you

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to all those people who are support the

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skeptic zone by simply subscribing for

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only a dollar a week and you can do that

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at skeptic zone TV every cent really

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does help us make the show and do things

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like travel about to reach lots and lots

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of people we are very very grateful

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indeed for all those people who helped

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us out in that way so it's time to sit

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back grab that lovely cappuccino and

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Steve Shaw better known as Banacek was

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born in England but raised in South

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Africa and Australia he has been

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performing magic since his arrival in

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the United States in 1976 bannerchek is

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renowned for fooling scientists at

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Washington University into believing

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that he supposed psychic abilities were

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genuine during the famous project alpha

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hoax in the early 1980s right now he is

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part of the James Randi Educational

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Foundation having just taken over the 1

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million dollar prize I caught up with

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the banner check at the amazing meeting

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and I'm delighted now to be back here in

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Las Vegas talking to van and check

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himself hi bana check hi good to be here

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now you've had an interesting morning I

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understand you've just been driving down

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Las Vegas Boulevard blindfold yeah you

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know there's an Australian television

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crew here and they're shooting and

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they're shooting a peace with myself and

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Randy and it's interesting that's a

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little plaything at this guy try to fool

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us with a crystal ball and everything

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and using modern technology but we

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busted him right away on it and he said

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you know what what do you think I could

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I could actually do to try to get the

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attention of the media because I told

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him he needed to get some media presence

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in order to be tested again and you know

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he said what what do you think i can do

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i said well let me show you and so we

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took him on a blindfold drive and his

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crew down Las Vegas Boulevard and some

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of the back roads down there here about

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peed their pants so that's a yeah that's

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a good start now I've been certainly am

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an admirer of yours for a long time and

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I four or five years ago I bought your

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DVD series which taught me all well

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taught me more I must say about

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metalbending not in mending thinking I

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can sincerely recommend recommend that

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that looked like it was a fun thing to

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shoot that it was a fun thing to shoot

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in 11 air but yeah there was so much it

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happen behind the season that we shot

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that whole DVD three times first time I

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got it back and then they had a problem

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with one of the channels on the mics um

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so then we have to fly all the way up to

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Connecticut and shoot it again and then

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when we were there we're shooting in

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some persons camera place and they kept

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having people come and go so then we had

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to stop and then we have to shoot again

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at night so in that aspect it was a pain

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in the butt to shoot yeah but overall

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I'm glad I did it I I'm proud of it I

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think there's some really good stuff on

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there all the metal bins that I

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invention and I have to do that because

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there was other people you're putting

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out dvds and tapes that had my benz on

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them so any lady credit yeah it's one of

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the reasons i got started when in magic

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putting out a lot of my stuff my very

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first thing is psychokinetic time and

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years ago when her gala was doing things

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thing with watches randy was going on TV

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and he was actually exposing the method

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of yes I'm pointing up the state

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changing the time yes I said well how

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can I convince people that I'm not

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pulling out the stem and I thought you

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know what if they take their watch off

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and I put it facedown in their hand and

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now I asked him the name and number

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after their hand is closed on it but I

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make the hands move that many minutes

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that would convince them I'm not pulling

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out the stem because I'm not touching to

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watch I'm far away from it and they

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named the number and that was the first

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effect one of the very first effects I

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actually put out per se and couldn't

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give them away back in the day and now

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every single Mentalist out there is

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performing psychokinetic time they're

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all performing it but the reason I put

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it out was I had taught a young magician

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the effect and I watched him later and

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saw him doing any was doing it very

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badly it was almost exposure uh-huh oh

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my god this is bad okay I better put all

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my subtleties into this book so other

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people can understand it and part of the

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intro to that book was mentioning this

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young man not by name and he calls me up

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on the telephone one day all excited oh

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you mention me in the book thank you

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thank you thank you why would you thank

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me for that you know and so a lot of

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times magicians put out their own

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material that they use specifically so

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that they can lay claim to it before

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somebody else does it's very cutthroat

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world magicians yeah really it is yeah

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unfortunately the video also has a

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sequence of course with you with a small

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audience so you can show how you present

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all the stuff I put out is real world

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stuff I mean other people of some

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magicians will try something once or

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they've never tried it and I put it on a

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DVD everything I put on my DVDs is real

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world it works in the real world you

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know and it will fool people it will end

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in the DVD to it they're seen you in

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restaurant absolutely yeah yeah yeah and

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you can see that you can see the actual

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reactions from the people yeah so the

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little crowd you had with the friends or

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don't cry don't know any of those beauty

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no no you just arrested on just a

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restaurant yeah just walking you say

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that manager hey can we know we're

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shooting a documentary documentary

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sounds better than a magic DVD you

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probably get some publicity as a result

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of it you know do you mind if we

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shooting you are no problem at all yes

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you know we always have to check and

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make sure that people hey do you mind if

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we show you something where we have a

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camera crew here okay I get them on

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camera saying they don't mind so yeah

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yeah it is just real world people

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nothing set up and the great

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reactions to the twists yeah yeah well

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getting director yeah now of course yo

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speaking of as metal bending is very

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dear to your heart because it's

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something that really sort of

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kick-started you into this whole world

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yes I was inventing your own bends when

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you were hearing about every girl you

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know what's what's interesting is is I

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had heard about early but I'd never seen

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early i lived in South Africa when he

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came to South Africa and I remember

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holding a little pin and being convinced

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that I could bend this pin even though

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I'd never been I kind of was just

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looking for something oh I think it

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might have you know compelling and that

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was because all the adults told me

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around me they all believed in it and so

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they told me it was real so if all the

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adults telling you it's real it has to

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be real so I was convinced it was and it

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was until I read Randy's book that I

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thought there might be another side to

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this and from Randy's book the truth

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about uri geller I was able to piece in

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my own mind what the Ben should look

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like and take some of the ideas of

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Randy's and and and impose him on my own

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thoughts and come up with my own methods

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for bending metal which were it's

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interesting cuz i was on the same stage

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with early years ago when i was

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pretending to be psychic and her return

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and he said these kids myself and mike

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edwards theatre stood on the project

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alpha well um yeah he said these kids

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can do things I can't do and I was doing

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things he couldn't do like big twists

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and different Ben's in the time Ben and

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the interesting thing was when I saw

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yellow for the very first time you never

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actually saw the metal bending you know

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but I have always convinced prior that

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you would see the metal bending but it

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was always a thing of covering the

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four-cross food and then taking your

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hand away that was bent yeah so not

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knowing that but hearing that the metal

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continues to bed hearing already oh look

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you can see it bending and people being

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convinced that it could yes I thought

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that every Bend had to be a bend where

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you could actually use issue at bending

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so that's why i created my benz that way

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so it's good that i hadn't seen him up

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to that point it's I've had a somebody

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in Australia when I interviewed me one

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stage or other and I said but every

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giver he just picks up the spoon looks

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at it and melts doesn't it and people oh

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that because that's the verbiage it's

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been put out there you know now gallows

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advanced some I think in some of the

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bends from what I had seen in the early

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days and some of the bends you actually

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see bending oh you know I

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don't know if I influenced that or maybe

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not you know but he now the key was one

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that you actually did see they do that

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was one of the few that you and the nail

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that was the few that you actually saw

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the item bending yeah back in the early

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days you get that's right I remember

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seeing what I've got quite a collection

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of Gilliam videos and now on the

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Internet of course everything I can go

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through YouTube and it's all there I

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don't know why I bother even and

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capturing it to my own computer because

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it's it's there for the world to see and

269
00:10:34,980 --> 00:10:32,140
I once put out a little video myself

270
00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:34,990
where he was doing a key bend to show

271
00:10:40,769 --> 00:10:37,930
that the angle had not changed yeah yeah

272
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:40,779
from beginning to end and gala had it

273
00:10:45,150 --> 00:10:42,730
removed off my youtube channel did he

274
00:10:48,329 --> 00:10:45,160
yeah Oh what is my connection of the

275
00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:48,339
regular ah yeah yeah well you know he

276
00:10:52,110 --> 00:10:50,260
has the rights to a lot of that stuff or

277
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:52,120
utilizes people that do have the rights

278
00:10:57,150 --> 00:10:53,920
to get that stuff removed so he's still

279
00:11:00,900 --> 00:10:57,160
um you know he's apart from being famous

280
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,910
for his metal bending abilities yeah we

281
00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:02,800
say he's also famous for being

282
00:11:06,060 --> 00:11:04,630
incredibly led to do stand suing at the

283
00:11:08,780 --> 00:11:06,070
drop of a hat I don't know if he's still

284
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:08,790
that carried away I heard Wiseman got

285
00:11:13,380 --> 00:11:11,920
sued recently you know over something

286
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:13,390
because in England it's interesting that

287
00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:14,890
libel laws are now changing over there

288
00:11:20,190 --> 00:11:17,950
um it's not what your intent over there

289
00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:20,200
it's what people take away from what you

290
00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:22,690
say and there was something i think that

291
00:11:27,090 --> 00:11:24,760
early may have been told that Wiseman

292
00:11:29,550 --> 00:11:27,100
said that people walked away with a

293
00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:29,560
certain belief but Wiseman taped it and

294
00:11:33,870 --> 00:11:31,630
was able to show no no h-he really does

295
00:11:35,370 --> 00:11:33,880
but he taped his talk and was able to

296
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:35,380
show know people could not have walked

297
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:37,690
away believing that unless they wanted

298
00:11:40,889 --> 00:11:39,250
to you know but there's no they would

299
00:11:43,019 --> 00:11:40,899
have had to insert it some some of their

300
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:43,029
own personal thoughts majorly have to

301
00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:44,290
have done that so he's able to get out

302
00:11:50,540 --> 00:11:48,070
of that suit yeah yeah it's it's quite

303
00:11:52,190 --> 00:11:50,550
interesting sometimes I do

304
00:11:55,699 --> 00:11:52,200
in Australia for schools high school

305
00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:55,709
team and I begin with a classic spoon

306
00:12:00,740 --> 00:11:58,410
mend and what I really love is the fact

307
00:12:03,769 --> 00:12:00,750
that all the students have never seen it

308
00:12:06,009 --> 00:12:03,779
ya know yes it was a spoon bending now

309
00:12:09,380 --> 00:12:06,019
you'd think if it was a legitimate magic

310
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:09,390
psychic thing way back in the seventies

311
00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:11,130
that would be entrenched in our society

312
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:12,959
by now but now the kids happen you know

313
00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:14,850
every generation is different and and

314
00:12:17,329 --> 00:12:16,110
and that's one of the things about this

315
00:12:19,310 --> 00:12:17,339
you know we can only deal with the here

316
00:12:20,569 --> 00:12:19,320
and now it's interesting you mentioned

317
00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:20,579
schools because I used to do a lot of

318
00:12:23,870 --> 00:12:22,110
schools at one point and I would come

319
00:12:25,250 --> 00:12:23,880
out and I would perform i would do

320
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:25,260
impossible things and then i would ask

321
00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:26,970
the students i say how many of you

322
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:28,529
believe that what you just saw was real

323
00:12:31,759 --> 00:12:30,000
and ninety percent of the hands would go

324
00:12:33,980 --> 00:12:31,769
up because it really look real you know

325
00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:33,990
them they had no explanation and I say

326
00:12:38,630 --> 00:12:36,240
how many people do not believe and you

327
00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:38,640
see us they five six seven hands go up

328
00:12:42,259 --> 00:12:40,860
you know and and then I would say to him

329
00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:42,269
I say why don't you think it's real and

330
00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:43,950
the person says well because my dad told

331
00:12:46,699 --> 00:12:45,480
me that stuff's not real and then I'd

332
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:46,709
asked another kid I said why don't you

333
00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:47,970
think it's real oh because i read in a

334
00:12:51,380 --> 00:12:49,529
paper or a book that it's not real and

335
00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:51,390
and those are the kind of answers i was

336
00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:52,529
getting and then i would turn to those

337
00:12:55,010 --> 00:12:53,910
five six people i say you know you're

338
00:12:56,630 --> 00:12:55,020
right and they'd get a big smile on

339
00:12:59,240 --> 00:12:56,640
their face that's it but for the wrong

340
00:13:00,560 --> 00:12:59,250
reasons yeah yeah I said you know these

341
00:13:03,199 --> 00:13:00,570
other kids saw something they couldn't

342
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:03,209
explain and hence they believe that what

343
00:13:06,139 --> 00:13:05,250
they saw was real about maybe they

344
00:13:08,810 --> 00:13:06,149
should have SAT back and said I don't

345
00:13:10,190 --> 00:13:08,820
have enough facts but you were doing the

346
00:13:11,449 --> 00:13:10,200
exact same thing was just in a different

347
00:13:12,769 --> 00:13:11,459
way really what you're doing is you're

348
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:12,779
sitting back and you're going on what

349
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:14,760
somebody else tells you let me tell you

350
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:16,890
a story when I was a kid all the adults

351
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:18,839
around me told me that this man was

352
00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:21,120
really convince mind and so I believed

353
00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:23,070
it you know and they had told me it

354
00:13:26,630 --> 00:13:24,540
wasn't real I would have believed that

355
00:13:28,430 --> 00:13:26,640
too you're much better off saying I

356
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:28,440
don't know and that's part of the

357
00:13:31,819 --> 00:13:29,970
problem with the educational process now

358
00:13:34,010 --> 00:13:31,829
is kids are so scared to say I don't

359
00:13:35,660 --> 00:13:34,020
know and sometimes that's the smartest

360
00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:35,670
answer you can give because the moment

361
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:38,040
you say I don't know you can add to that

362
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:40,770
but I will find out somebody who does oh

363
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:43,050
I will look for the answer and then you

364
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:44,370
go out and you look for the right person

365
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:46,410
and that's that that is often the

366
00:13:49,759 --> 00:13:47,730
problem with the skeptics movement too

367
00:13:51,259 --> 00:13:49,769
isn't it I mean you get skeptical about

368
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:51,269
things you get a lot of information

369
00:13:54,110 --> 00:13:52,320
about all these different things and you

370
00:13:56,030 --> 00:13:54,120
think you know everything you know and

371
00:13:57,500 --> 00:13:56,040
you don't you know I you know Phil Plait

372
00:13:59,000 --> 00:13:57,510
gave a talk yesterday one of the things

373
00:13:59,250 --> 00:13:59,010
he said when people come up to him you

374
00:14:01,080 --> 00:13:59,260
know

375
00:14:02,820 --> 00:14:01,090
no he's a skeptic as long as they're

376
00:14:05,130 --> 00:14:02,830
talking about astrology he's okay he's

377
00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:05,140
fine because he does know that stuff but

378
00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:06,310
the moment they start talking about

379
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:07,750
things outside of his area immediately

380
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:09,370
says look you know I'm skeptical about

381
00:14:12,690 --> 00:14:11,050
it but you know here's a person you

382
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:12,700
should speak to I'm not the person to

383
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:14,770
speak to about that but so many skeptics

384
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:16,150
don't do that you know they just take

385
00:14:18,810 --> 00:14:17,650
the little bits of information that they

386
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:18,820
have and they throw it out there to

387
00:14:22,170 --> 00:14:21,130
support their argument when they're much

388
00:14:24,180 --> 00:14:22,180
better off saying you know what I'm

389
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:24,190
skeptical about it you know because of

390
00:14:27,630 --> 00:14:25,810
this this and this but I don't have all

391
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:27,640
the facts and there's nothing wrong with

392
00:14:31,470 --> 00:14:29,050
saying there's nothing wrong with saying

393
00:14:33,630 --> 00:14:31,480
it although it is tempting to keep going

394
00:14:36,090 --> 00:14:33,640
oh no it is it is very tempting you know

395
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:36,100
we we all want to seem like we're

396
00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:37,720
smarter than we already do you know I

397
00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:39,190
think that's you know that's just

398
00:14:43,020 --> 00:14:41,020
insecurities creeping in you know people

399
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:43,030
people that are very insecure attend to

400
00:14:46,350 --> 00:14:45,040
try to cover it up by trying to pretend

401
00:14:48,060 --> 00:14:46,360
that they're very smart but sometimes

402
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:48,070
the smartest people in the world they're

403
00:14:51,690 --> 00:14:50,290
the quietest people in the room when you

404
00:14:53,220 --> 00:14:51,700
enter one-on-one conversation with them

405
00:14:54,930 --> 00:14:53,230
you know they sit back they listen and

406
00:14:56,490 --> 00:14:54,940
they learn from what other people are

407
00:14:59,310 --> 00:14:56,500
saying and they learn to strengthen

408
00:15:01,410 --> 00:14:59,320
their own arguments by listening yeah so

409
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:01,420
at the moment apart from of course

410
00:15:06,690 --> 00:15:03,130
appearing here it'd be amazing leading

411
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:06,700
in Las Vegas what else is in the in the

412
00:15:11,250 --> 00:15:09,490
pipeline for them well tomorrow we are

413
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:11,260
going to announce that I'm taking over

414
00:15:15,180 --> 00:15:12,910
the million-dollar challenge I'm taking

415
00:15:16,380 --> 00:15:15,190
the reins of that so a lot of exciting

416
00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:16,390
things that we're going to be doing with

417
00:15:20,820 --> 00:15:18,700
that trying to get a little bit more put

418
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:20,830
it more into the media I try to be a

419
00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:22,810
little bit more proactive going after

420
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:24,790
some you know high-profile psychics not

421
00:15:28,290 --> 00:15:26,290
the will succeed with any of that but at

422
00:15:31,050 --> 00:15:28,300
least at least bring attention to it yes

423
00:15:33,090 --> 00:15:31,060
arm and have more live demonstrations if

424
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:33,100
we can more alive MDC million-dollar

425
00:15:36,450 --> 00:15:34,810
challenge demonstrations with it like

426
00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:36,460
we've got a little eyes no we don't have

427
00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:38,230
one we don't have one to what we have

428
00:15:42,390 --> 00:15:40,030
tomorrow is we have a demonstration

429
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:42,400
that's totally different I have a

430
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:43,510
psychic here who's willing to

431
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:46,090
demonstrate her ability right not under

432
00:15:48,990 --> 00:15:47,650
any controlled conditions it shouldn't

433
00:15:50,580 --> 00:15:49,000
be misconstrued that it's controlled

434
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:50,590
conditions in any way whatsoever there's

435
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:52,810
no controls on this in fact because what

436
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:54,490
I want people to take a look at is I

437
00:15:58,770 --> 00:15:56,410
want them to realize how difficult it is

438
00:16:00,360 --> 00:15:58,780
to come up with a set of controls for

439
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:00,370
somebody so I thought this would be a

440
00:16:02,910 --> 00:16:01,810
nice way and I know I could blow up in

441
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:02,920
my face who knows you know

442
00:16:07,949 --> 00:16:05,170
sunday and all their about it until next

443
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:07,959
year you know d myself next year but um

444
00:16:11,879 --> 00:16:10,240
we wanted to get somebody to do a live a

445
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:11,889
life challenge here but we couldn't get

446
00:16:15,870 --> 00:16:14,320
anybody I mean it was it was a thing of

447
00:16:17,699 --> 00:16:15,880
getting an affidavit and all those

448
00:16:19,530 --> 00:16:17,709
things they just people just be it's a

449
00:16:20,699 --> 00:16:19,540
lot more difficult to get somebody to

450
00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:20,709
follow through on the challenge as much

451
00:16:25,019 --> 00:16:22,750
as they want to then you would think it

452
00:16:27,150 --> 00:16:25,029
really really is and then setting up the

453
00:16:29,009 --> 00:16:27,160
challenge in such a way that you're

454
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:29,019
being fair to the claimant and you're

455
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:30,850
being fair to your own controls you're

456
00:16:33,449 --> 00:16:32,410
not conceding anything at the same time

457
00:16:34,769 --> 00:16:33,459
but you're trying to do it in an

458
00:16:36,269 --> 00:16:34,779
environment that works well for the

459
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:36,279
claimant yeah so that afterwards the

460
00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:37,930
claim it doesn't say oh but I can't

461
00:16:40,050 --> 00:16:38,889
couldn't do it because of this so I

462
00:16:42,509 --> 00:16:40,060
couldn't do it because of that they

463
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:42,519
always do always do they always do but

464
00:16:45,569 --> 00:16:44,290
we always try to cater to as much of

465
00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:45,579
that as we can as long as it doesn't

466
00:16:50,579 --> 00:16:47,470
take away from our controls yeah and

467
00:16:52,439 --> 00:16:50,589
it's a very good point they always do so

468
00:16:54,269 --> 00:16:52,449
far no I thought last year was gonna be

469
00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:54,279
the one that didn't her name was Connie

470
00:17:00,019 --> 00:16:58,510
Connie sana sana yeah yeah and she was

471
00:17:03,420 --> 00:17:00,029
interesting because she said I cheated

472
00:17:05,549 --> 00:17:03,430
but she accused me Gina which was which

473
00:17:07,260 --> 00:17:05,559
was really interesting because you know

474
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:07,270
at the press conference she did allude

475
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:10,000
that they whoever this elusive lately I

476
00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:11,770
told her it was not time for her to show

477
00:17:15,299 --> 00:17:13,900
her powers remember abilities not the

478
00:17:17,819 --> 00:17:15,309
Obama said you can't have it both ways

479
00:17:18,990 --> 00:17:17,829
you can't have that they tell you that

480
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,000
it's not time for you to show your

481
00:17:24,569 --> 00:17:22,000
abilities and I cheated you you know it

482
00:17:25,770 --> 00:17:24,579
can't be both ways so surely they would

483
00:17:28,289 --> 00:17:25,780
have told you I cheated you at that

484
00:17:30,570 --> 00:17:28,299
press conference yeah that's right they

485
00:17:32,610 --> 00:17:30,580
did not do this whole concept this whole

486
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:32,620
concept of day is a good one I've come

487
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:35,440
across it so many times oh it's not me

488
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:37,840
it's what I'm being told by them yes

489
00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:39,490
yeah well that takes that takes the

490
00:17:43,470 --> 00:17:41,710
responsibility wave right yes that

491
00:17:46,110 --> 00:17:43,480
person you know too if they can put it

492
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:46,120
off on somebody else so um yeah you know

493
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:47,440
and the whole thing of Jeannie I can see

494
00:17:49,950 --> 00:17:48,610
what the cards I was just trying to move

495
00:17:51,930 --> 00:17:49,960
it along a little quick at that point

496
00:17:53,940 --> 00:17:51,940
she'd already fail yeah at the point

497
00:17:55,530 --> 00:17:53,950
where she says I cheated yeah but I know

498
00:17:57,810 --> 00:17:55,540
that there were some magicians behind

499
00:17:59,640 --> 00:17:57,820
the scenes that want people they'd like

500
00:18:00,780 --> 00:17:59,650
to storm some trouble and that's that's

501
00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:00,790
a shame we want people to think that

502
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:02,350
they're genuine when they're actually

503
00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:04,210
magicians themselves so they got her a

504
00:18:06,539 --> 00:18:05,350
stir it up in some way you could've

505
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:06,549
cheated you this way could it you know

506
00:18:10,049 --> 00:18:08,770
that way so yeah we deal with that I

507
00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:10,059
just don't pay any attention to it I

508
00:18:13,020 --> 00:18:11,500
don't reply to it I don't

509
00:18:14,940 --> 00:18:13,030
Ned's there's no point because the

510
00:18:16,170 --> 00:18:14,950
moment you do that yeah they'll come

511
00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:16,180
back with something else and yeah it

512
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:17,500
just becomes a shouting match back and

513
00:18:21,090 --> 00:18:18,730
forth there's just no point in it you

514
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:21,100
know she agreed to the protocol ahead of

515
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:22,720
time she did yep and she can always come

516
00:18:26,670 --> 00:18:24,070
back and apply again and we could test

517
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:26,680
her again yeah so if people want to find

518
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:28,720
out more about what you are up to in a

519
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:30,910
bit a bit more about your history where

520
00:18:36,180 --> 00:18:32,530
can they hear well then go to banish a

521
00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:36,190
calm and they can find me there they can

522
00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:38,980
go to vanish X blogger blogspot there I

523
00:18:44,130 --> 00:18:42,070
primarily talk about the psychology of

524
00:18:45,540 --> 00:18:44,140
human nature you know and how it applies

525
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:45,550
to things that happen in my life so I

526
00:18:48,690 --> 00:18:46,810
try to put some interesting stories on

527
00:18:49,710 --> 00:18:48,700
there hopefully one day that all come

528
00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:49,720
together and be a book I don't know

529
00:18:52,350 --> 00:18:50,920
we'll see what happens with that they

530
00:18:55,740 --> 00:18:52,360
can go to Facebook it's interesting

531
00:18:58,740 --> 00:18:55,750
because facebook i had banachek um but I

532
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:58,750
had an old is P yeah and all whenever I

533
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:00,640
try to change the email on it now it

534
00:19:04,530 --> 00:19:02,410
goes to that is because I forgot what

535
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:04,540
the password was so I have to get a ban

536
00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:08,530
a and then check but there is a banner

537
00:19:12,210 --> 00:19:10,540
check fan page as well so you can get me

538
00:19:14,790 --> 00:19:12,220
through that as well I'm and of course

539
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:14,800
Twitter so yeah you're everywhere I am

540
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:16,960
everywhere you know yeah I'm coming up

541
00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:19,690
on that 5,000 that area we just end up

542
00:19:22,890 --> 00:19:21,670
going into this gully you know 5,000

543
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:22,900
friend mark so I don't know what's going

544
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:25,360
to happen at that point Banacek thank

545
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:26,650
you very much it's been my pleasure my

546
00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:39,649
this is your own n laura from sapphic

547
00:19:44,060 --> 00:19:41,700
severe The Skeptical podcast for hebrew

548
00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:44,070
speakers come listen to all things and

549
00:19:58,039 --> 00:19:49,500
holy in the holy language at WWF XE OTL

550
00:20:00,289 --> 00:19:58,049
is mohammad asif in australia last

551
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:00,299
weekend dr. rich and i enjoyed a lovely

552
00:20:05,899 --> 00:20:03,330
trip down to Canberra where we spoke to

553
00:20:09,049 --> 00:20:05,909
Canberra skeptics in the pub we had a

554
00:20:10,639 --> 00:20:09,059
wonderful time a good day out and here

555
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:10,649
are a few clips from some of the people

556
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:12,960
I met along the way and a big thank you

557
00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:23,509
so I'm here at king o Malley's in

558
00:20:27,409 --> 00:20:25,500
Canberra with dr. reach and I have just

559
00:20:30,019 --> 00:20:27,419
an hour skeptics in the pub talk and I'm

560
00:20:31,009 --> 00:20:30,029
talking with Alex stock hello Alex and

561
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:31,019
you've come along to see us today

562
00:20:35,149 --> 00:20:32,970
certainly have and your your local you

563
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:35,159
yes I am and you're just telling me that

564
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:36,480
you've been working your way through all

565
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:38,490
19 6 or whatever it is episode to the

566
00:20:43,549 --> 00:20:41,570
skeptics yeah over the past few months

567
00:20:45,769 --> 00:20:43,559
infiltrator and he didn't expect to be

568
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:45,779
interviewed today either no no but I

569
00:20:49,580 --> 00:20:48,330
kind of hoped exactly yeah and did I

570
00:20:52,220 --> 00:20:49,590
hope you enjoyed our talks I certainly

571
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:52,230
did yeah stuck away at the back fats and

572
00:20:56,659 --> 00:20:54,510
killers in the way but got the gist of

573
00:20:58,190 --> 00:20:56,669
it yeah it was great great to see you

574
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,200
and dr. rachey after hearing your voice

575
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:01,200
so many times I will spin our pleasure

576
00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:02,880
to come down here and I'm delighted to

577
00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:04,769
say the pub was absolutely packed today

578
00:21:09,379 --> 00:21:07,529
what do you think of over 150 people or

579
00:21:13,519 --> 00:21:09,389
something I this is andrew gould I think

580
00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:13,529
we got at least 120 in here I was really

581
00:21:18,830 --> 00:21:15,480
good it was really impressed to see so

582
00:21:20,450 --> 00:21:18,840
many people meet you now it's very

583
00:21:21,769 --> 00:21:20,460
pleased to see such a big tournament

584
00:21:23,299 --> 00:21:21,779
people sort of milling around at the

585
00:21:25,879 --> 00:21:23,309
moment asking us questions and having a

586
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:25,889
chat and we're handing out some stickers

587
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:27,510
here from the token skeptic podcast and

588
00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:28,770
other goodies

589
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:32,580
yes ma'am I do in fact have not told of

590
00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:34,290
them and thank you very much my pleasure

591
00:21:39,170 --> 00:21:37,470
and I'm now talking to another guest

592
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:39,180
here another person has come along to

593
00:21:43,970 --> 00:21:40,770
cease at the pub hello it's Nicole isn't

594
00:21:45,530 --> 00:21:43,980
it yes it is hi now you wrote to me and

595
00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:45,540
said that you listen to the skeptics and

596
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:48,870
when when you're doing what my husband

597
00:21:51,530 --> 00:21:50,370
and I were listening to the skeptic so

598
00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:51,540
in a few months ago when we were driving

599
00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:54,390
to our wedding now some people have got

600
00:21:56,990 --> 00:21:55,590
more important things about their things

601
00:22:02,120 --> 00:21:57,000
to think about when they own their wage

602
00:22:04,550 --> 00:22:02,130
there I was getting a bit antsy so I

603
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:04,560
thought okay we listen to something kind

604
00:22:09,140 --> 00:22:07,050
of a bit of distraction and it worked oh

605
00:22:13,580 --> 00:22:09,150
good so you did get married after all

606
00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:13,590
yes thanks to the skeptics army well I'm

607
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:15,300
really pleased that you both came along

608
00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:19,440
here today hello oh I look to my Lou so

609
00:22:23,540 --> 00:22:20,790
thank you both for coming along and

610
00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:23,550
people started oh no we're still people

611
00:22:26,450 --> 00:22:25,260
are still crowded around chatting to us

612
00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:26,460
at the moment but the pub is slowly

613
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:28,440
getting back to normal but it was a

614
00:22:34,450 --> 00:22:31,440
great turnout it was fantastic so thank

615
00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:34,460
you and dr. Wei Qi for coming thank you

616
00:22:40,490 --> 00:22:38,460
so under the events just about over now

617
00:22:42,110 --> 00:22:40,500
I'm thank you very much for helping said

618
00:22:43,850 --> 00:22:42,120
that up no worries thanks for coming

619
00:22:46,010 --> 00:22:43,860
down it was fantastic really really

620
00:22:48,590 --> 00:22:46,020
enjoyed it now if our listeners in the

621
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:48,600
camry or it came to be more active and

622
00:22:53,780 --> 00:22:51,510
do more skeptical activities with you

623
00:22:56,990 --> 00:22:53,790
especially how can they go back well you

624
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:57,000
can google Canberra skeptics the URL of

625
00:23:01,160 --> 00:22:59,520
that website isn't very user friendly so

626
00:23:02,540 --> 00:23:01,170
so I just do a google it comes up at the

627
00:23:05,770 --> 00:23:02,550
top if you do those Canberra skeptics

628
00:23:07,790 --> 00:23:05,780
they will list their monthly lecture

629
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:07,800
unfortunately for listeners of this

630
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,290
podcast the next one is tomorrow that's

631
00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:12,240
Monday but but that's that's dr. Martin

632
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:15,300
bridge stock alright and so yeah we're

633
00:23:21,290 --> 00:23:17,850
quite excited to have him come up and

634
00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:21,300
give us a talk on the talk is issuing

635
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:23,220
issues that divide schematics yes you

636
00:23:27,530 --> 00:23:26,010
nursing talk yeah it does sound very

637
00:23:29,150 --> 00:23:27,540
interesting this is your normal watering

638
00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:29,160
hole this is our normal watering hole

639
00:23:32,690 --> 00:23:31,230
pink King o'malley's irish pub it's fun

640
00:23:34,610 --> 00:23:32,700
listeners this is a really great

641
00:23:36,620 --> 00:23:34,620
location for a talk or a get together

642
00:23:37,470 --> 00:23:36,630
it's a fantastic spots for skeptics in

643
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:37,480
the pub

644
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:39,610
if you're in the acct for anywhere near

645
00:23:44,730 --> 00:23:42,250
Canberra this is the place to be Google

646
00:23:47,310 --> 00:23:44,740
Canberra skeptics meet up to yes we're

647
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:47,320
on meetup we're on facebook Canberra

648
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:48,970
skeptics in the pub on facebook we hold

649
00:23:54,539 --> 00:23:51,610
a monthly meetup third Sunday of every

650
00:23:57,030 --> 00:23:54,549
month starting usually about two o'clock

651
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:57,040
as we did today sometimes we have a

652
00:24:00,510 --> 00:23:58,960
speaker sometimes we don't there's

653
00:24:03,450 --> 00:24:00,520
always good conversation and good people

654
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:03,460
so regardless of whether you you want a

655
00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:06,730
a big event like we had today or just a

656
00:24:11,220 --> 00:24:09,340
small gathering of 15 to 20 people we

657
00:24:13,650 --> 00:24:11,230
have both it's fantastic that's a

658
00:24:27,620 --> 00:24:13,660
message everybody local skepticism in

659
00:24:36,659 --> 00:24:30,990
now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

660
00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:36,669
with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello listeners

661
00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:40,150
and welcome to dr. Richie reports well

662
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:41,590
I'm not going to mess about today I'm

663
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:43,600
here to talk to you about how the avn

664
00:24:48,450 --> 00:24:46,720
misuse statistics and this is important

665
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:48,460
because twisting statistics to make

666
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:50,470
vaccines that seem less effective or not

667
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:52,960
effective at all is scaring parents away

668
00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:56,049
from vaccinating their kids and I'm

669
00:25:00,299 --> 00:24:57,340
going to play you an interview today

670
00:25:02,250 --> 00:25:00,309
which demonstrates just this now in

671
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:02,260
australia this week five cases of

672
00:25:06,930 --> 00:25:04,000
measles were reported on the north coast

673
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:06,940
of New South Wales the home of the avian

674
00:25:13,020 --> 00:25:09,520
and recently Australia has been

675
00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:13,030
experiencing a pertussis epidemic but

676
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:14,950
Meryl Dory says pertussis or whooping

677
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:18,610
cough does not kill now her assertions

678
00:25:21,419 --> 00:25:20,110
were recently examined in the

679
00:25:24,180 --> 00:25:21,429
investigation by the Healthcare

680
00:25:26,190 --> 00:25:24,190
Complaints Commission so briefly a

681
00:25:29,310 --> 00:25:26,200
little bit of background provided by the

682
00:25:31,169 --> 00:25:29,320
Department of Health and Ageing in their

683
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:31,179
decade before the introduction of the

684
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:33,730
pertussis vaccination more than 2,800

685
00:25:39,810 --> 00:25:37,600
people died of pertussis now this figure

686
00:25:41,789 --> 00:25:39,820
was reduced by seventy-five percent in

687
00:25:44,220 --> 00:25:41,799
the decade following the introduction of

688
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:44,230
the vaccine even if you don't die from

689
00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:46,450
pertussis you can suffer horrible

690
00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:48,809
complications including pneumonia

691
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:51,830
fractured ribs pneumothorax

692
00:25:57,810 --> 00:25:54,890
hernias aspiration hearing loss carotid

693
00:26:01,000 --> 00:25:57,820
artery dissection urinary incontinence

694
00:26:03,370 --> 00:26:01,010
prolapses seizures encephalopathy and

695
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:03,380
possible death in the very young who

696
00:26:07,210 --> 00:26:05,360
have not yet received any vaccinations

697
00:26:09,850 --> 00:26:07,220
or who have not yet completed their

698
00:26:11,980 --> 00:26:09,860
course so how does Meryl Dori twist

699
00:26:15,250 --> 00:26:11,990
statistics to suit her anti-vaccine

700
00:26:17,130 --> 00:26:15,260
stance first up let's take a look at the

701
00:26:19,450 --> 00:26:17,140
avians website which states that

702
00:26:21,940 --> 00:26:19,460
australian government statistics have

703
00:26:24,639 --> 00:26:21,950
shown that the majority of outbreaks of

704
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:24,649
pertussis in Australia occur in those

705
00:26:30,129 --> 00:26:26,450
who have been fully vaccinated or were

706
00:26:31,779 --> 00:26:30,139
too young to be fully vaccinated well of

707
00:26:33,789 --> 00:26:31,789
course they do and this makes sense

708
00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:33,799
since if we consider that the majority

709
00:26:38,259 --> 00:26:35,750
of people in Australia are vaccinated

710
00:26:40,019 --> 00:26:38,269
for pertussis and the vaccine does not

711
00:26:42,850 --> 00:26:40,029
prevent you from contracting the disease

712
00:26:45,970 --> 00:26:42,860
so most people who contract it will have

713
00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:45,980
been at least partially vaccinated but

714
00:26:50,049 --> 00:26:47,720
what is important to remember is that

715
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:50,059
the disease is generally mild in those

716
00:26:57,070 --> 00:26:53,110
who have previously been vaccinated in

717
00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:57,080
Australia in 2004 and 2005 more than

718
00:27:01,480 --> 00:26:58,730
seventy percent of pertussis

719
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:01,490
notifications occurred in people older

720
00:27:07,870 --> 00:27:04,130
than 15 years which is when immunity

721
00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:07,880
begins to wane so this may sound a

722
00:27:12,430 --> 00:27:09,230
little complicated but it really

723
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:12,440
shouldn't be it is known for example and

724
00:27:17,769 --> 00:27:14,570
acknowledged that no vaccine is a

725
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:17,779
hundred percent safe or effective plus a

726
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:20,720
vaccine is not like a forcefield so the

727
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:23,090
virus or bacteria can still infect you

728
00:27:27,159 --> 00:27:25,039
but if you already have the antibodies

729
00:27:30,220 --> 00:27:27,169
in your system from a prior vaccination

730
00:27:32,590 --> 00:27:30,230
or exposure your body can fight the

731
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:32,600
illness much faster hence the disease

732
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:34,850
severity is less and the duration is

733
00:27:43,060 --> 00:27:38,809
shorter seems logical right or maybe not

734
00:27:45,129 --> 00:27:43,070
to some late last year on ABC radio

735
00:27:47,289 --> 00:27:45,139
north coast Meryl Dory was interviewed

736
00:27:49,889 --> 00:27:47,299
about the recent pertussis epidemics

737
00:27:52,779 --> 00:27:49,899
that have been occurring in Australia

738
00:27:54,820 --> 00:27:52,789
she provided the ABC with statistics

739
00:27:57,190 --> 00:27:54,830
about vaccine coverage and outbreaks

740
00:27:59,230 --> 00:27:57,200
which were read out by the presenter to

741
00:28:02,529 --> 00:27:59,240
a North Coast pediatrician dr. Chris

742
00:28:04,090 --> 00:28:02,539
Engel as you're about to hear dr. Engel

743
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:04,100
was somewhat perplexed by these

744
00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:05,450
statistics

745
00:28:09,610 --> 00:28:07,100
dr. Engel I just wanted to talk about

746
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:09,620
some statistics with you that I have in

747
00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:13,760
front of me now in 1991 Australia had a

748
00:28:20,289 --> 00:28:15,620
whooping cough vaccination rate of

749
00:28:23,710 --> 00:28:20,299
seventy one point six percent and 318

750
00:28:26,590 --> 00:28:23,720
cases reported nationwide last year in

751
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:26,600
2008 for the first time whooping cough

752
00:28:33,549 --> 00:28:28,850
vaccination rates were in excess of

753
00:28:35,289 --> 00:28:33,559
ninety five percent and we had fourteen

754
00:28:39,009 --> 00:28:35,299
thousand five hundred and twenty two

755
00:28:41,139 --> 00:28:39,019
cases of whooping cough on record so I

756
00:28:43,419 --> 00:28:41,149
feel like we've got the figures they're

757
00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:43,429
cutting those figures came to me from

758
00:28:46,930 --> 00:28:45,529
Merrill Dory from the Australian

759
00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:46,940
vaccination network here we're going to

760
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:49,190
talk to in a moment yeah well I think

761
00:28:54,879 --> 00:28:52,250
those figures are very rubbery downright

762
00:28:57,009 --> 00:28:54,889
wrong and I think a couple of things

763
00:29:00,009 --> 00:28:57,019
have happened firstly the process runs

764
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:00,019
in cycles so you'll have used whether lo

765
00:29:07,060 --> 00:29:03,679
pertussis numbers and usually they will

766
00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:07,070
be high we've also developed a new way

767
00:29:11,799 --> 00:29:09,769
of detecting pertussis which is called

768
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:11,809
PCR which is highly sensitive and

769
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:14,210
specific so lots of kids in the past

770
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:17,690
babies and children who we couldn't

771
00:29:23,310 --> 00:29:20,090
culture and they had no blood reaction

772
00:29:26,409 --> 00:29:23,320
to pertussis but they had the illness

773
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:26,419
were if you like left off the figures

774
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:28,850
whereas now we're capturing all those

775
00:29:34,299 --> 00:29:31,250
kids because we have a very good test

776
00:29:40,090 --> 00:29:34,309
but you know that those figures at

777
00:29:43,330 --> 00:29:40,100
typical anti-vaccination Network figures

778
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:43,340
which are you know biased and skewed and

779
00:29:49,450 --> 00:29:47,360
the cherry picking exercises as you'll

780
00:29:51,310 --> 00:29:49,460
find out in a moment dr. Engel was

781
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:51,320
correct to call me story out for these

782
00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:54,320
dodgy statistics they certainly confused

783
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:56,360
a parent who called up later in the

784
00:30:00,879 --> 00:29:58,880
segment Michael from turbulent good

785
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:00,889
morning Michael I how you do not do that

786
00:30:08,129 --> 00:30:03,440
thank you we had a young son vaccinated

787
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:08,139
to err on the side of caution but my arm

788
00:30:14,619 --> 00:30:12,710
my idea is that you had both the PD the

789
00:30:17,139 --> 00:30:14,629
pediatrician from lismore and the

790
00:30:18,850 --> 00:30:17,149
anti-vaccination ladies quoting

791
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:18,860
statistics which

792
00:30:22,810 --> 00:30:21,170
11 said were inaccurate and the other

793
00:30:25,810 --> 00:30:22,820
one said were provided by the government

794
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:25,820
and I'm wondering is anybody actually

795
00:30:32,919 --> 00:30:30,170
conducting current studies to bring this

796
00:30:35,470 --> 00:30:32,929
whole debate to a to a whole once and

797
00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:35,480
for all let's put them in as appearance

798
00:30:39,250 --> 00:30:37,670
to hear something from a pediatrician

799
00:30:42,610 --> 00:30:39,260
than hear something from someone who's

800
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,620
got evidence pointing against it it puts

801
00:30:45,549 --> 00:30:44,240
a big question mark over your head as to

802
00:30:47,289 --> 00:30:45,559
whether you're doing the right thing for

803
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:47,299
your child Jill you know and then you

804
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:49,370
get the nurse who said that her children

805
00:30:54,250 --> 00:30:52,640
and she's been she stayed up for hours

806
00:30:56,169 --> 00:30:54,260
saving the lives of children with

807
00:30:59,980 --> 00:30:56,179
whooping cough and then you wonder

808
00:31:01,780 --> 00:30:59,990
exactly whose interests anybody us is

809
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:01,790
serving when they start quoting

810
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:04,690
statistics and your statistics can be

811
00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:07,850
tuned to bolster any argument whether

812
00:31:13,390 --> 00:31:10,760
it's for or against and I'm just

813
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:13,400
wondering is there any actual federal

814
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:16,000
government funding that's going towards

815
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:18,890
scientific empirical studies to make

816
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,650
sure that we finally get an answer to

817
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:23,360
this question because like the gentleman

818
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:24,650
before I've been following this issue

819
00:31:28,450 --> 00:31:27,110
for years to and it's never never seems

820
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:28,460
to be resolved you know all you've got

821
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:30,650
is to and fro in between the pro and

822
00:31:34,390 --> 00:31:32,570
again well it's not just in this country

823
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:34,400
either it sets in international issue

824
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,250
know when or maybe the UN should take it

825
00:31:41,950 --> 00:31:39,440
up and study it but nobody is actually

826
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:41,960
coming talking to a conclusion about it

827
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:43,910
you know you've got this ongoing debate

828
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:46,910
and they just I'm sure all those people

829
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:49,130
who don't vaccinate their children do it

830
00:31:52,930 --> 00:31:50,960
in good face that they're being given

831
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:52,940
the right information and those of us

832
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:56,090
who do also do the same thing Michael

833
00:32:00,340 --> 00:31:58,250
nothing conclusive you know nobody says

834
00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:00,350
okay this is it this is a study you

835
00:32:04,330 --> 00:32:02,510
can't argue against his full stop okay

836
00:32:06,940 --> 00:32:04,340
you raise a very interesting point I do

837
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,950
you think you as it turns out there was

838
00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:09,440
a complaint made about the statistics

839
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:12,230
used by miss Dorry in this segment this

840
00:32:19,090 --> 00:32:15,290
was upheld on November 11 2009 by the

841
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:19,100
ABC audience and Consumer Affairs they

842
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:21,770
found that the complaint was upheld on

843
00:32:26,380 --> 00:32:24,290
two counts of in accuracy in relation to

844
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:26,390
statistical information referred to in

845
00:32:31,030 --> 00:32:29,090
this segment the presenter referred to

846
00:32:32,019 --> 00:32:31,040
statistics which suggested that whilst

847
00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:32,029
the rate of

848
00:32:36,459 --> 00:32:34,369
nation had increased the number of cases

849
00:32:41,709 --> 00:32:36,469
had also substantially increased in the

850
00:32:43,690 --> 00:32:41,719
period from 1991 to 2008 the statistics

851
00:32:45,489 --> 00:32:43,700
were drawn from different data sets and

852
00:32:48,430 --> 00:32:45,499
related to different groups of children

853
00:32:51,009 --> 00:32:48,440
and although each individual statistic

854
00:32:53,619 --> 00:32:51,019
was in and of itself accurate and drawn

855
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:53,629
from a verifiable government source the

856
00:32:58,539 --> 00:32:55,279
comparative manner in which they were

857
00:33:00,849 --> 00:32:58,549
presented was misleading further the

858
00:33:03,789 --> 00:33:00,859
first vaccination rate statistic was for

859
00:33:07,779 --> 00:33:03,799
the year 2001 what but was presented as

860
00:33:09,249 --> 00:33:07,789
a vaccination rate for 1991 here's what

861
00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:09,259
miss Dorry had to say about the

862
00:33:15,070 --> 00:33:12,320
statistics in the same interview but my

863
00:33:17,259 --> 00:33:15,080
concern is that dr. engles is unaware of

864
00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:17,269
the information that you just gave about

865
00:33:22,810 --> 00:33:19,809
the 40-times increase in the rate of

866
00:33:24,999 --> 00:33:22,820
whooping cough despite a twenty-four

867
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:25,009
percent increase in the vaccination rate

868
00:33:28,479 --> 00:33:26,690
and when you said that the information

869
00:33:30,669 --> 00:33:28,489
that you're quoting was actually

870
00:33:32,919 --> 00:33:30,679
provided to you by myself that's true

871
00:33:34,239 --> 00:33:32,929
but I actually sent you the graphs which

872
00:33:36,339 --> 00:33:34,249
were from the Australian Government

873
00:33:38,289 --> 00:33:36,349
Department of Health and Ageing and one

874
00:33:39,849 --> 00:33:38,299
would think that a pediatrician in dr.

875
00:33:42,249 --> 00:33:39,859
engles position would have been aware of

876
00:33:43,629 --> 00:33:42,259
this information this is government

877
00:33:45,190 --> 00:33:43,639
information I'm not pulling these

878
00:33:47,349 --> 00:33:45,200
figures out of thin air these are not

879
00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:47,359
incorrect figures and if they are

880
00:33:50,729 --> 00:33:48,769
incorrect and it's the government that's

881
00:33:53,349 --> 00:33:50,739
provided the incorrect information as

882
00:33:55,479 --> 00:33:53,359
previously stated whilst these

883
00:33:57,279 --> 00:33:55,489
statistics individually might be valid

884
00:33:59,849 --> 00:33:57,289
the way that miss Dorry has compared

885
00:34:02,409 --> 00:33:59,859
them has made them appear misleading

886
00:34:05,109 --> 00:34:02,419
miss Dorry also presented these

887
00:34:07,479 --> 00:34:05,119
statistics to the H Triple C in support

888
00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:07,489
of her assertion that vaccination does

889
00:34:13,059 --> 00:34:10,700
not offer protection from pertussis the

890
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:13,069
commission also investigated and agreed

891
00:34:17,649 --> 00:34:15,770
with the findings of the ABC that indeed

892
00:34:20,379 --> 00:34:17,659
the data was drawn from australian

893
00:34:22,329 --> 00:34:20,389
government sources but critically they

894
00:34:25,569 --> 00:34:22,339
were drawn from two completely different

895
00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:25,579
data sets so what does this mean in

896
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:28,460
layman's terms let's consider this

897
00:34:32,799 --> 00:34:31,010
analogy you are the headmaster of a

898
00:34:35,740 --> 00:34:32,809
school and want to ensure that you get

899
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:35,750
good academic rankings so you take a

900
00:34:39,789 --> 00:34:37,609
bunch of kids in primary school who are

901
00:34:42,279 --> 00:34:39,799
doing really well and you tell everyone

902
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:42,289
the parents the media the school board

903
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:44,450
that you have the highest achieving kids

904
00:34:48,110 --> 00:34:45,090
in there

905
00:34:49,910 --> 00:34:48,120
group in all of the school district then

906
00:34:51,980 --> 00:34:49,920
you follow these kids through school to

907
00:34:54,260 --> 00:34:51,990
high school but some of them drop out

908
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:54,270
some get distracted and don't perform as

909
00:34:59,810 --> 00:34:56,610
well so by the time they finish school

910
00:35:02,210 --> 00:34:59,820
their grade point average is poor so

911
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:02,220
what do you do you choose another group

912
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:04,680
of kids who were doing really well who

913
00:35:08,450 --> 00:35:06,210
maybe didn't even come from the same

914
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:08,460
class or perhaps didn't have the same

915
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:11,130
teachers maybe they only started at your

916
00:35:15,740 --> 00:35:13,710
school in their final year meaning your

917
00:35:17,660 --> 00:35:15,750
teachings and your school had little or

918
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:17,670
no impact on their performance in their

919
00:35:22,220 --> 00:35:20,370
final year but you still want to look

920
00:35:24,260 --> 00:35:22,230
good to the community and appear to rank

921
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:24,270
high so you compare the kids from

922
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:25,680
primary school who were doing really

923
00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:28,050
well but have since dropped out with the

924
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:30,180
final year achievers who only started

925
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:32,910
that year does this now like a valid

926
00:35:38,030 --> 00:35:36,000
comparison well obviously not yet this

927
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:38,040
is essentially what Meryl Dory has done

928
00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:40,530
in Reverse if you like to make the

929
00:35:45,130 --> 00:35:43,260
pertussis vaccine look worthless she

930
00:35:47,690 --> 00:35:45,140
compared two different groups of kids

931
00:35:49,940 --> 00:35:47,700
unrelated sets of data relating to

932
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:49,950
different cohorts of kids to get her

933
00:35:55,610 --> 00:35:53,610
answer that the vaccine doesn't work now

934
00:35:58,030 --> 00:35:55,620
the H Triple C asked her to explain this

935
00:36:00,650 --> 00:35:58,040
anomaly and she responded with a corker

936
00:36:03,110 --> 00:36:00,660
she explained that the data sets were

937
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:03,120
appropriately compared by dr. Gary

938
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:06,630
Goldman now dr. Gary Goldman is the

939
00:36:11,660 --> 00:36:08,490
president and founder of the conspiracy

940
00:36:14,030 --> 00:36:11,670
theory Laden non medline indexed woo

941
00:36:16,820 --> 00:36:14,040
fest Journal that is known as medical

942
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:16,830
vera test it is described on its

943
00:36:21,860 --> 00:36:19,530
homepage as the only honest health

944
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:21,870
science journal exposing pharmaceutical

945
00:36:26,990 --> 00:36:24,690
genocide oh and also as a side note it

946
00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:27,000
was the silver recipient of the 2009

947
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:30,390
mom's choice awards in other words this

948
00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:33,690
is not a reputable Journal now the

949
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:35,460
Commission surprisingly did not accept

950
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:37,650
this source either and asked for

951
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:39,210
evidence of the methodology and

952
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:41,610
calculations undertaken to achieve the

953
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:43,890
statistical comparison that Meryl Dory

954
00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:47,280
provided these have apparently not been

955
00:36:50,990 --> 00:36:49,320
forthcoming thus the H Triple C

956
00:36:52,340 --> 00:36:51,000
concluded that ms dorries showed no

957
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:52,350
evidence for the claim that the

958
00:36:57,650 --> 00:36:55,170
pertussis vaccine is ineffective yet

959
00:36:58,970 --> 00:36:57,660
despite the findings of the ABC despite

960
00:37:01,160 --> 00:36:58,980
the findings of the H Triple

961
00:37:03,620 --> 00:37:01,170
see despite what I've just explained to

962
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:03,630
you midori is still claiming that her

963
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,810
statistics are correct this is a course

964
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:08,400
the hallmark of alternative medicine

965
00:37:13,580 --> 00:37:11,010
cranks they refuse to change their

966
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,590
position despite shifting evidence and

967
00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:15,359
this is because their position was

968
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:17,520
probably never based in evidence to

969
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:20,250
begin with I'll leave the final word

970
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:22,410
with Mungo MacCallum who is a North

971
00:37:26,420 --> 00:37:24,210
Coast author and journalist and

972
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:26,430
outspoken opponent of Merrill Dorie and

973
00:37:31,930 --> 00:37:29,760
the avian here Mungo makes a great point

974
00:37:34,849 --> 00:37:31,940
about false balance in the media and

975
00:37:37,609 --> 00:37:34,859
until next time this has been dr. Richie

976
00:37:40,430 --> 00:37:37,619
reports Mungo MacCallum from ocean

977
00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:40,440
chillers good morning good morning I'm

978
00:37:43,849 --> 00:37:42,150
look I just want to say that it's not

979
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:43,859
true to say that this is an ongoing

980
00:37:49,070 --> 00:37:46,770
argument the argument was settled nearly

981
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:49,080
a hundred years ago vaccination is

982
00:37:54,410 --> 00:37:50,490
effective it's been proven effective

983
00:37:57,410 --> 00:37:54,420
over and over and over again sure there

984
00:37:59,620 --> 00:37:57,420
can be occasional side effects but the

985
00:38:02,599 --> 00:37:59,630
side effects a trivial compared to the

986
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:02,609
diseases that they can be avoided

987
00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:05,490
through vaccination and this is the

988
00:38:11,150 --> 00:38:08,280
point and if it's not very well to say

989
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,160
the parents have a choice but when they

990
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:13,440
make that choice by choosing not to have

991
00:38:18,650 --> 00:38:16,320
their own children vaccinated they also

992
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:18,660
put other children at risk because the

993
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:20,609
lower the rate of vaccination in the

994
00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:22,800
community the more likely there are is

995
00:38:28,490 --> 00:38:25,710
to be infection and that's how the other

996
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:28,500
children catch it and finally there's

997
00:38:33,050 --> 00:38:30,240
this question of balance are we going to

998
00:38:36,109 --> 00:38:33,060
have a debate about it sure let's have a

999
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:36,119
debate and let's have balance so for

1000
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:38,609
every single time you put Merrill glory

1001
00:38:45,500 --> 00:38:41,970
and her army of cranks on or the handful

1002
00:38:47,930 --> 00:38:45,510
of cranks on actually you should put 99

1003
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:47,940
separate doctors for the next ninety

1004
00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:51,210
nine days on through till till the

1005
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:53,310
audience that neural door is simply

1006
00:38:59,210 --> 00:38:55,770
wrong because that's where the balance

1007
00:39:01,040 --> 00:38:59,220
is the balance is ninety-nine percent of

1008
00:39:04,490 --> 00:39:01,050
informed opinion in favour of

1009
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:04,500
vaccinations and one handful of cranks

1010
00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:07,680
who call it indirectly caused the deaths

1011
00:39:25,810 --> 00:39:10,830
of many children against it okay thank

1012
00:39:32,750 --> 00:39:29,690
spits the Galactic universe is comprised

1013
00:39:35,660 --> 00:39:32,760
of literally dozens of stars in hundreds

1014
00:39:37,550 --> 00:39:35,670
of galaxies man has waited millions of

1015
00:39:40,190 --> 00:39:37,560
light years for the infinite rays of the

1016
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:40,200
cosmos to reach us yet it can all

1017
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:43,710
disappear in a parsec the distance you

1018
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:44,880
have no idea what you're talking about

1019
00:39:50,060 --> 00:39:48,330
do you what galactic universe dozens of

1020
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:50,070
stars parsec and light years as

1021
00:39:54,770 --> 00:39:52,770
measurements of time you know what you

1022
00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:54,780
need to go to the star party the what

1023
00:39:59,930 --> 00:39:57,420
the Atlanta skeptics star party what's

1024
00:40:03,080 --> 00:39:59,940
that you really are clueless here read

1025
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,090
this okay would see please join the

1026
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:05,280
Atlanta skeptics on Thursdays number

1027
00:40:10,849 --> 00:40:08,160
second 2010 for stargazing food drinks

1028
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:10,859
and amazing conversations build that the

1029
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:13,050
Emory math and science center in Atlanta

1030
00:40:17,150 --> 00:40:15,210
Georgia astronomers Pamela gay and

1031
00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:17,160
Fraser Cain will be hosting this amazing

1032
00:40:22,310 --> 00:40:20,310
night oh I love those guys oh yeah keep

1033
00:40:24,349 --> 00:40:22,320
going Pamela and Fraser will be leading

1034
00:40:27,020 --> 00:40:24,359
this exploration of the skies using the

1035
00:40:28,849 --> 00:40:27,030
observatory at Emory musician podcast

1036
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:28,859
during science leverage or Tron will

1037
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:31,170
also be providing entertainment who's

1038
00:40:35,839 --> 00:40:33,690
that never mind keep reading this event

1039
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:35,849
is an honor of Jeff met Jeff the blue

1040
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:38,160
color scientist Jeff succumbed the liver

1041
00:40:42,859 --> 00:40:40,650
cancer in 2008 and all proceeds will go

1042
00:40:46,609 --> 00:40:42,869
toward the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society

1043
00:40:49,339 --> 00:40:46,619
in Jeff's name nice no yes yes indeed

1044
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:49,349
keep reading for those attending dragon

1045
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:50,970
column this is the night before the

1046
00:40:57,460 --> 00:40:53,910
craziness begins go to Atlanta skeptics

1047
00:41:00,190 --> 00:40:57,470
calm / star party for full information

1048
00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:00,200
remember to meteorites don't make a

1049
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:02,390
meteor wrong don't add anything just

1050
00:41:07,540 --> 00:41:05,330
just read sorry the Atlanta skeptic star

1051
00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:07,550
party of family game freezer King and

1052
00:41:13,450 --> 00:41:10,400
George Rob Thursday September second at

1053
00:41:16,089 --> 00:41:13,460
seven-thirty p.m. you gonna go oh yeah

1054
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:16,099
just make sure you listen mostly cool

1055
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:20,480
cool Atlanta skeptics dot-com / star

1056
00:41:44,980 --> 00:41:26,450
party join us now for drinking

1057
00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:44,990
skeptically in the think tank and it's a

1058
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:48,310
good evening and welcome to a think tank

1059
00:41:52,930 --> 00:41:51,170
and tonight's guests playing a song that

1060
00:41:54,580 --> 00:41:52,940
I have never heard before I must admit

1061
00:41:57,310 --> 00:41:54,590
what was the song called where's me to

1062
00:42:00,099 --> 00:41:57,320
ask me jumper where's me jumper by

1063
00:42:01,270 --> 00:42:00,109
sultans of ping FC from County Cork and

1064
00:42:05,740 --> 00:42:01,280
the reason we're playing that is because

1065
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:05,750
it's on the latest Maynard's podcast and

1066
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:07,010
as you might have gathered what our

1067
00:42:10,359 --> 00:42:08,480
special guest tonight is course none of

1068
00:42:12,220 --> 00:42:10,369
them may not hello may not how is your

1069
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:12,230
foot night then look it's great to be

1070
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:13,970
here but more importantly what coming up

1071
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:15,200
at the weekend but we'll get on to that

1072
00:42:18,430 --> 00:42:16,490
in a minute please introduce the rest of

1073
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:18,440
the drunk tank tonight wouldn't know

1074
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:20,810
we're not even I mean I'm having a dime

1075
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:24,290
on me one bit hello to James g'day

1076
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,570
everyone today we're so that your little

1077
00:42:30,820 --> 00:42:28,640
sheepies she be along tonight now he's

1078
00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:30,830
staying at home sleeping Adam ich sie

1079
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:33,950
blasen are you shipping dr. AG hello

1080
00:42:39,849 --> 00:42:35,839
little numbing tins here though a little

1081
00:42:43,690 --> 00:42:39,859
numbing t'en Jason good evening now I

1082
00:42:46,450 --> 00:42:43,700
I'm well my jump as well to Joe Benna

1083
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:46,460
move the skeptical nurse I return are

1084
00:42:50,859 --> 00:42:48,770
you skeptical I'm skeptical I'm always

1085
00:42:52,990 --> 00:42:50,869
skeptical well why don't you lead off

1086
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:53,000
proceedings tonight skeptical nurse Joe

1087
00:42:58,210 --> 00:42:56,810
all right well um for those of you

1088
00:43:00,220 --> 00:42:58,220
living in Sydney and around Australia

1089
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:00,230
you probably know that we've just

1090
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:02,089
started National Science Week I think I

1091
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:04,110
me was just started this week wasn't it

1092
00:43:10,580 --> 00:43:07,920
yes we type and one of the events on the

1093
00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:10,590
National Science Week calendar is the

1094
00:43:15,370 --> 00:43:13,590
ultimo Science Festival which is run in

1095
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:15,380
the center of Sydney includes some

1096
00:43:22,130 --> 00:43:18,210
fantastic events on the science calendar

1097
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:22,140
promotions of science and dr. Rocha 994

1098
00:43:25,580 --> 00:43:24,090
last few years okay yeah well we went

1099
00:43:28,100 --> 00:43:25,590
down to Cameron so we went down to

1100
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:28,110
Cameron something to do yeah anyway so I

1101
00:43:31,850 --> 00:43:29,760
was some I was having a look at the

1102
00:43:35,780 --> 00:43:31,860
website for the Ultima Science Festival

1103
00:43:38,780 --> 00:43:35,790
and I was rather I guess it would be

1104
00:43:41,810 --> 00:43:38,790
horrified this made taken aback taken

1105
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:41,820
aback to see that on the calendar for

1106
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:44,130
the ultimo science festival is what

1107
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:46,530
they're calling acupuncture and Chinese

1108
00:43:56,450 --> 00:43:54,000
medicine clinical tours um anyway I

1109
00:43:58,130 --> 00:43:56,460
don't do you interrupt you may now did

1110
00:44:01,190 --> 00:43:58,140
you choose this background music oh it's

1111
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:01,200
gone no no just as we mention a key

1112
00:44:08,420 --> 00:44:03,690
puncher ever sings take a chance on me

1113
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:08,430
coincidence carry on Joe so anyway I am

1114
00:44:13,580 --> 00:44:10,740
I was suitably concerned and I decided

1115
00:44:15,740 --> 00:44:13,590
to write to the organizers at the

1116
00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:15,750
Science Festival and ask them why they

1117
00:44:26,620 --> 00:44:22,230
thought that I can't talk with Kylie's

1118
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:26,630
on it Oh Carly my no not Carly Sturgis

1119
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:29,850
so I decided to write to the organizers

1120
00:44:34,250 --> 00:44:32,610
and find out why they thought this was a

1121
00:44:36,050 --> 00:44:34,260
suitable event to include on the

1122
00:44:39,410 --> 00:44:36,060
calendar of a science festival because

1123
00:44:41,330 --> 00:44:39,420
as most of us would know there is no

1124
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:41,340
evidence to support any science behind

1125
00:44:46,130 --> 00:44:44,490
acupuncture and I wrote to them and

1126
00:44:49,790 --> 00:44:46,140
express my concern and I got a response

1127
00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:49,800
back from someone at the university of

1128
00:44:54,380 --> 00:44:52,920
technology actually I'm not I'm not a

1129
00:44:56,270 --> 00:44:54,390
hundred percent certain how UTS

1130
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:56,280
specifically is tied to the Science

1131
00:44:59,930 --> 00:44:58,290
Festival they are based in ultimo and I

1132
00:45:02,750 --> 00:44:59,940
probably a lot of their events are

1133
00:45:04,820 --> 00:45:02,760
connected because of that and I do also

1134
00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:04,830
know that UTS has has run a course on

1135
00:45:09,410 --> 00:45:07,740
Chinese medicine for many many years and

1136
00:45:11,090 --> 00:45:09,420
if you'd like I'll actually read you the

1137
00:45:16,229 --> 00:45:11,100
response that they gave me please do you

1138
00:45:19,469 --> 00:45:17,939
Joanne thank you for your interest in

1139
00:45:20,879 --> 00:45:19,479
the ultimate Science Festival we

1140
00:45:22,439 --> 00:45:20,889
acknowledge your concern over the

1141
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:22,449
inclusion of acupuncture and Chinese

1142
00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:25,119
medicine clinical towards acupuncture

1143
00:45:27,749 --> 00:45:26,529
and Chinese medicine has been part of

1144
00:45:31,499 --> 00:45:27,759
the university of technology sydney

1145
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:31,509
since 1994 the university has been under

1146
00:45:36,689 --> 00:45:33,729
to authority the university has been

1147
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:36,699
trusted it from sorry for you the

1148
00:45:39,809 --> 00:45:38,319
university has been undertaking

1149
00:45:42,059 --> 00:45:39,819
high-quality research into the

1150
00:45:46,619 --> 00:45:42,069
mechanisms of acupuncture as well as its

1151
00:45:48,329 --> 00:45:46,629
therapeutic outcomes enough so okay if

1152
00:45:51,179 --> 00:45:48,339
you are and if you actually had any

1153
00:45:53,609 --> 00:45:51,189
decent studies be a better look at them

1154
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,619
anyway if you were to undertake a full

1155
00:45:57,149 --> 00:45:55,599
review of the medical literature you

1156
00:45:58,949 --> 00:45:57,159
would find that in recent years a number

1157
00:46:00,179 --> 00:45:58,959
of high quality international studies

1158
00:46:02,669 --> 00:46:00,189
with positive outcomes have been

1159
00:46:05,429 --> 00:46:02,679
published well there was one just

1160
00:46:06,989 --> 00:46:05,439
published in the LA and ejm was there um

1161
00:46:08,579 --> 00:46:06,999
actually I haven't had a chance to look

1162
00:46:10,619 --> 00:46:08,589
at that one only 1 i've looked at this

1163
00:46:12,749 --> 00:46:10,629
one a wild back pain one or something

1164
00:46:15,089 --> 00:46:12,759
yet there was the one there was the one

1165
00:46:17,759 --> 00:46:15,099
that came out a few about a year and a

1166
00:46:18,989 --> 00:46:17,769
half two years ago now the one i think a

1167
00:46:21,779 --> 00:46:18,999
lot of whom would be familiar with where

1168
00:46:23,909 --> 00:46:21,789
they compared sham acupuncture real

1169
00:46:27,119 --> 00:46:23,919
acupuncture and there were actually four

1170
00:46:28,919 --> 00:46:27,129
streams study and it showed the study

1171
00:46:30,749 --> 00:46:28,929
showed that sham acupuncture was

1172
00:46:32,549 --> 00:46:30,759
punctured the other one was just by the

1173
00:46:34,619 --> 00:46:32,559
book exactly where the book says in the

1174
00:46:36,749 --> 00:46:34,629
third one was personalized acupuncture

1175
00:46:38,939 --> 00:46:36,759
and of course the fourth group was no

1176
00:46:40,919 --> 00:46:38,949
acupuncture at all now all four groups

1177
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:40,929
actually received conventional treatment

1178
00:46:45,929 --> 00:46:43,599
as well so all they're really comparing

1179
00:46:48,299 --> 00:46:45,939
is doing nothing vers doing something

1180
00:46:51,389 --> 00:46:48,309
irrelevant of what that something is the

1181
00:46:54,569 --> 00:46:51,399
study was that shamik at sham

1182
00:46:56,519 --> 00:46:54,579
acupuncture was as effective as real

1183
00:46:59,249 --> 00:46:56,529
acupuncture and the way that this was

1184
00:47:01,439 --> 00:46:59,259
then taken by the media and I think the

1185
00:47:06,179 --> 00:47:01,449
authors of the study as well was that

1186
00:47:07,769 --> 00:47:06,189
sham acupuncture works as well study

1187
00:47:09,419 --> 00:47:07,779
didn't really say that but the companies

1188
00:47:11,069 --> 00:47:09,429
behind it promoting it they were the

1189
00:47:14,129 --> 00:47:11,079
ones saying yes it actually does work

1190
00:47:15,749 --> 00:47:14,139
and that that's actually been written

1191
00:47:17,309 --> 00:47:15,759
about quite extensively on science-based

1192
00:47:18,749 --> 00:47:17,319
medicine I know Stephen Amell written

1193
00:47:20,789 --> 00:47:18,759
about they've talked about honest to you

1194
00:47:24,269 --> 00:47:20,799
so it's pretty well known and people

1195
00:47:25,709 --> 00:47:24,279
commented on pretty extensively anyway

1196
00:47:28,290 --> 00:47:25,719
she carries on she says there are many

1197
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,300
clinical trial based papers as well

1198
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:30,559
just because their child's around there

1199
00:47:34,329 --> 00:47:32,930
doesn't mean they show anything simply

1200
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:34,339
because we do not understand the

1201
00:47:37,690 --> 00:47:36,319
mechanisms of acupuncture does not mean

1202
00:47:39,099 --> 00:47:37,700
that we should abandon the scientific

1203
00:47:43,150 --> 00:47:39,109
investigation of this medical

1204
00:47:45,730 --> 00:47:43,160
intervention can I just add something to

1205
00:47:47,770 --> 00:47:45,740
that Joe I'm currently writing a review

1206
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:47,780
on a puncture a review of the reviews of

1207
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:50,210
acupuncture and there's a couple of

1208
00:47:55,660 --> 00:47:52,250
reviews that I've come across that the

1209
00:47:58,720 --> 00:47:55,670
has shown at benefit over placebo but

1210
00:48:02,440 --> 00:47:58,730
it's been in conditions like mild back

1211
00:48:04,540 --> 00:48:02,450
pain as Jason just mentioned and I think

1212
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:04,550
the other one was mild headache so all

1213
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:05,359
these conditions that are

1214
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:07,490
self-correcting if you like the other

1215
00:48:12,220 --> 00:48:09,680
reviews I've looked at it is for example

1216
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:12,230
be subjective yeah because they're all

1217
00:48:16,180 --> 00:48:14,960
out of a headache they'll give you a rub

1218
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:16,190
on the head oh it's much better now

1219
00:48:20,530 --> 00:48:18,319
thanks well that's right got much better

1220
00:48:21,970 --> 00:48:20,540
effect yeah because one of the one of

1221
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:21,980
the studies looked at IBS irritable

1222
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:24,890
bowel syndrome and guess what well

1223
00:48:28,420 --> 00:48:26,960
nothing happened it didn't have any

1224
00:48:30,849 --> 00:48:28,430
effects because that is a clinical

1225
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:30,859
condition that you know results in you

1226
00:48:35,410 --> 00:48:32,210
well you know about this stuff as you

1227
00:48:39,010 --> 00:48:35,420
work in gastroenterology think yeah and

1228
00:48:40,930 --> 00:48:39,020
you'll say something else but that's not

1229
00:48:42,370 --> 00:48:40,940
something that you know like I'd like a

1230
00:48:43,990 --> 00:48:42,380
headache and mild back pay and their

1231
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:44,000
self correcting and as you say

1232
00:48:48,460 --> 00:48:46,010
subjective that's not something that can

1233
00:48:50,859 --> 00:48:48,470
get better by itself so all the studies

1234
00:48:54,910 --> 00:48:50,869
I've looked at but similarly though I vs

1235
00:48:57,609 --> 00:48:54,920
is it's almost a diagnosis of what do

1236
00:48:59,230 --> 00:48:57,619
you call it a half gone blank it's a

1237
00:49:02,319 --> 00:48:59,240
diagnosis that's made by eliminating all

1238
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:02,329
other diagnoses so it's a danger it's a

1239
00:49:05,859 --> 00:49:03,770
syndrome it doesn't it's a very vague

1240
00:49:07,780 --> 00:49:05,869
and nonspecific condition I mean it

1241
00:49:09,069 --> 00:49:07,790
exists but again it's like many other

1242
00:49:10,569 --> 00:49:09,079
conditions that they claim to be able to

1243
00:49:12,039 --> 00:49:10,579
treat with things like acupuncture where

1244
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:12,049
it can be very subjective and the

1245
00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:13,730
responses are very subjective and it's

1246
00:49:17,740 --> 00:49:16,430
very hard to measure well so was there

1247
00:49:19,420 --> 00:49:17,750
any more of that matter there is there

1248
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:19,430
is more I'm she then says I'm sure

1249
00:49:22,839 --> 00:49:21,200
however that we can both agree that the

1250
00:49:25,420 --> 00:49:22,849
purpose of the ultimate science festival

1251
00:49:26,770 --> 00:49:25,430
is to promote science as a whole we do

1252
00:49:28,539 --> 00:49:26,780
not believe that the inclusion of this

1253
00:49:30,609 --> 00:49:28,549
clinical tool will undermine the fabric

1254
00:49:34,740 --> 00:49:30,619
of science or the intent of the festival

1255
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:34,750
quite the opposite really

1256
00:49:41,790 --> 00:49:38,710
now I believe that this is more or less

1257
00:49:44,750 --> 00:49:41,800
a formless yeah well yes this is

1258
00:49:48,090 --> 00:49:44,760
actually a formulation because Iran

1259
00:49:50,490 --> 00:49:48,100
segev has wrote also wrote complaining

1260
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:50,500
about the same thing and got the

1261
00:49:58,740 --> 00:49:54,640
identical word for word response that I

1262
00:50:02,220 --> 00:49:58,750
did the identical letter so I haven't

1263
00:50:04,620 --> 00:50:02,230
yet responded erin has responded she did

1264
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:04,630
actually also send us kushiro she

1265
00:50:12,210 --> 00:50:06,310
referred specifically to a particular

1266
00:50:14,070 --> 00:50:12,220
paper which she did send and it this is

1267
00:50:16,550 --> 00:50:14,080
one that came out recently in nature

1268
00:50:19,830 --> 00:50:16,560
neuroscience and it's been blogged on

1269
00:50:22,710 --> 00:50:19,840
extensively by David Gorski and Steve

1270
00:50:26,130 --> 00:50:22,720
novella and it's another paper that's

1271
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:26,140
being thrown around by promoters of

1272
00:50:31,230 --> 00:50:28,930
acupuncture and they're claiming that

1273
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:31,240
this study was you know proving and

1274
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:33,010
demonstrating that acupuncture works but

1275
00:50:36,690 --> 00:50:34,960
of course when the minister he was torn

1276
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:36,700
to shreds it was demonstrate it was

1277
00:50:41,340 --> 00:50:39,190
actually a very good study but the study

1278
00:50:43,530 --> 00:50:41,350
was really not of acupuncture the study

1279
00:50:48,420 --> 00:50:43,540
showed some very interesting things

1280
00:50:51,870 --> 00:50:48,430
about how adenosine works in in pain

1281
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:51,880
relief and Dave Gorski in how he wrote

1282
00:50:54,420 --> 00:50:52,930
it up actually said that it was a

1283
00:50:55,740 --> 00:50:54,430
fascinating study that actually showed

1284
00:50:56,910 --> 00:50:55,750
some really interesting things and had

1285
00:50:58,410 --> 00:50:56,920
some really interesting clinical

1286
00:51:01,530 --> 00:50:58,420
implications which scientists could

1287
00:51:04,110 --> 00:51:01,540
actually use to create new drugs and

1288
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:04,120
work differently with treating pain but

1289
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:06,730
unfortunately the the people who

1290
00:51:12,510 --> 00:51:10,240
conducted the study were so attached to

1291
00:51:14,310 --> 00:51:12,520
the acupuncture side of things that it

1292
00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:14,320
really distracts from what was

1293
00:51:18,930 --> 00:51:16,710
effectively actually a pretty good paper

1294
00:51:20,850 --> 00:51:18,940
but the study itself really shows

1295
00:51:22,830 --> 00:51:20,860
nothing to do with acupuncture at all

1296
00:51:25,170 --> 00:51:22,840
the fact that acupuncture was a part of

1297
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:25,180
the study was entirely irrelevant but

1298
00:51:29,870 --> 00:51:27,970
people like this this nicole eng who

1299
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:29,880
who's responded to my complaint is

1300
00:51:34,020 --> 00:51:32,530
holding this up as evidence that

1301
00:51:36,410 --> 00:51:34,030
acupuncture works and why it is

1302
00:51:38,490 --> 00:51:36,420
scientific and we should be you know

1303
00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:38,500
nicole in

1304
00:51:42,750 --> 00:51:41,440
what's your position think you know late

1305
00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:42,760
I want to poison the well or anything

1306
00:51:46,380 --> 00:51:44,110
but it's she part of the school of

1307
00:51:48,210 --> 00:51:46,390
Integrative jobs it wouldn't be hard to

1308
00:51:49,950 --> 00:51:48,220
find out I haven't had a chance today to

1309
00:51:52,650 --> 00:51:49,960
this all happened this afternoon and I

1310
00:51:54,900 --> 00:51:52,660
haven't had a chance to find out so

1311
00:51:56,550 --> 00:51:54,910
we'll we'll get back to you on what's

1312
00:51:59,160 --> 00:51:56,560
also interesting about that Joe is she

1313
00:52:00,360 --> 00:51:59,170
sent you one study one study didn't she

1314
00:52:03,090 --> 00:52:00,370
say in the letter there's lots of

1315
00:52:05,130 --> 00:52:03,100
evidence so that's one study why didn't

1316
00:52:08,310 --> 00:52:05,140
she just send a cochrane review or

1317
00:52:13,110 --> 00:52:08,320
something oh I know why because none of

1318
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:13,120
them show as positive i am i'm not

1319
00:52:16,170 --> 00:52:14,650
satisfied with the response i've been

1320
00:52:18,210 --> 00:52:16,180
given i don't think it explains anything

1321
00:52:19,710 --> 00:52:18,220
about why they have ultimately Science

1322
00:52:22,740 --> 00:52:19,720
Festival has seen fit to include this

1323
00:52:25,170 --> 00:52:22,750
but what I would recommend is if anyone

1324
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:25,180
else feels the way I do that you also

1325
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,280
write to the ultimo Science Festival and

1326
00:52:30,780 --> 00:52:29,200
ask them why they think that this is an

1327
00:52:34,110 --> 00:52:30,790
appropriate event and what's the email

1328
00:52:37,710 --> 00:52:34,120
address the email address is ultimo

1329
00:52:40,650 --> 00:52:37,720
Science Festival at gmail com there you

1330
00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:40,660
go in fact if listeners Google are

1331
00:52:44,910 --> 00:52:43,480
kicking against the pricks they can find

1332
00:52:46,830 --> 00:52:44,920
an article written many years ago by

1333
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:46,840
Australian skeptics about acupuncture

1334
00:52:50,460 --> 00:52:48,640
can I just say that we got bumped from

1335
00:52:52,590 --> 00:52:50,470
the ultimo Science Festival this year

1336
00:52:54,540 --> 00:52:52,600
and I was going to say how you feel

1337
00:52:56,310 --> 00:52:54,550
about being bumped for acupuncture well

1338
00:52:58,610 --> 00:52:56,320
I think these rooms I think that shows

1339
00:53:02,220 --> 00:52:58,620
every year why not killers Oh

1340
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:02,230
controversial oh I believe this happens

1341
00:53:05,850 --> 00:53:04,210
every year it seems rather old seeing it

1342
00:53:08,370 --> 00:53:05,860
in the past but yeah we got bumped for

1343
00:53:10,590 --> 00:53:08,380
budget reasons so speaking about being

1344
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:10,600
some changes you better not be sounding

1345
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:12,640
you know better no we're not bitter and

1346
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:14,800
twisted or there's also the lewd

1347
00:53:18,750 --> 00:53:16,690
behavior last year that you went where

1348
00:53:20,370 --> 00:53:18,760
tune with the crowd well we are there is

1349
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:20,380
that we do have anything under our lab

1350
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:22,480
coat something I only went in your lab

1351
00:53:25,740 --> 00:53:23,650
coat

1352
00:53:30,750 --> 00:53:25,750
that was inappropriate use of a power

1353
00:53:33,330 --> 00:53:30,760
balance band well let me use the bumped

1354
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:33,340
the bumped for something else is a bit

1355
00:53:38,100 --> 00:53:36,250
of a segue dr. 'he you and I had a

1356
00:53:40,140 --> 00:53:38,110
marvelous time going down to cambrun

1357
00:53:42,270 --> 00:53:40,150
thanks to andrew gould for helping to

1358
00:53:44,370 --> 00:53:42,280
arrange that we spoke to skeptics in the

1359
00:53:46,740 --> 00:53:44,380
pub down there yeah we had a fantastic

1360
00:53:48,570 --> 00:53:46,750
day it was packed out wasn't it it

1361
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:48,580
worked really was I mean I went there

1362
00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:51,850
previously with sheepy to c pz myers a

1363
00:53:55,170 --> 00:53:53,710
number of months back and i reckon there

1364
00:53:57,870 --> 00:53:55,180
were more people there this time then

1365
00:54:01,410 --> 00:53:57,880
there were four pz yeah it was chalkers

1366
00:54:03,660 --> 00:54:01,420
really it was good fun but the day

1367
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:03,670
before i was scheduled to go on a local

1368
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:06,370
radio station to see see there in

1369
00:54:11,730 --> 00:54:08,650
canberra speak to them their afternoon

1370
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:11,740
presenter mike welsch mike welsch and so

1371
00:54:16,350 --> 00:54:14,050
the producer emailed me we lined it up

1372
00:54:18,540 --> 00:54:16,360
and i stayed home just to take the call

1373
00:54:19,590 --> 00:54:18,550
because I thought great publicity and so

1374
00:54:21,170 --> 00:54:19,600
I'm waiting and I'm waiting and I'm

1375
00:54:23,850 --> 00:54:21,180
listening online to the radio station

1376
00:54:28,260 --> 00:54:23,860
excuse me before I'm scheduled to be go

1377
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:28,270
on and on comes denyne I Leah from catch

1378
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:31,330
the fire ministries right and he talks

1379
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:33,730
for about five to ten minutes or so I'm

1380
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:35,680
thinking oh wow why would anybody have

1381
00:54:40,350 --> 00:54:38,110
that he's the guy who said that the bush

1382
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:40,360
fires in Victoria few years ago caused

1383
00:54:44,610 --> 00:54:42,400
by the important laws in Victoria Weir

1384
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:44,620
retribution from God so he's a nutcase

1385
00:54:48,930 --> 00:54:46,930
he was a kind of hang and uncharted asus

1386
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:48,940
isms on Hills a tug Canberra once a year

1387
00:54:52,050 --> 00:54:50,650
yeah and he's after witches and all

1388
00:54:53,790 --> 00:54:52,060
sorts of things on top of that he also

1389
00:54:55,470 --> 00:54:53,800
said he dreamt the victorian bushfires

1390
00:54:58,890 --> 00:54:55,480
were coming but just didn't tell anyone

1391
00:55:01,410 --> 00:54:58,900
yeah so I'm thinking to myself why would

1392
00:55:04,020 --> 00:55:01,420
anyone have this miss nutter on radio I

1393
00:55:05,820 --> 00:55:04,030
mean what's the deal and and then the

1394
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:05,830
producer gets back on the lot i was on i

1395
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:07,510
was waiting by the phone ring ring ah

1396
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:09,610
yep yeah here ready to go she said well

1397
00:55:13,470 --> 00:55:11,890
unfortunately we've run out of time we

1398
00:55:16,050 --> 00:55:13,480
can't fit you in our schedule today and

1399
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:16,060
so I wasn't happy and I said to produce

1400
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:18,250
it but you've got this guy on who said

1401
00:55:23,010 --> 00:55:21,010
that the bush fires were sent by God so

1402
00:55:25,490 --> 00:55:23,020
not happy not happy what's the

1403
00:55:28,170 --> 00:55:25,500
expression by happy Jan not happy Jan

1404
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:28,180
anyway but apart from that dr. a cheap

1405
00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:30,850
when we drove down the Canberra but we

1406
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:32,260
actually stopped on the side of the road

1407
00:55:36,670 --> 00:55:34,090
and I took a call from another radio

1408
00:55:38,140 --> 00:55:36,680
station spoke about what 15 minutes

1409
00:55:40,180 --> 00:55:38,150
really good into yeah really long

1410
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:40,190
interview did you go to Fishwick cuz

1411
00:55:44,530 --> 00:55:41,930
that's good for porn fireworks and

1412
00:55:46,299 --> 00:55:44,540
wicker furniture I don't know that we

1413
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:46,309
can furniture thing oh yeah well that's

1414
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:49,040
when I uses a cover story fireworks yeah

1415
00:55:52,210 --> 00:55:50,960
you can still buy fireworks oh I don't

1416
00:55:54,910 --> 00:55:52,220
know I imagine if you know the right

1417
00:55:56,140 --> 00:55:54,920
people i mean i mean at certain times

1418
00:55:57,549 --> 00:55:56,150
the it's a place to go for if you want

1419
00:55:59,559 --> 00:55:57,559
your hand blown off it's the place to go

1420
00:56:01,240 --> 00:55:59,569
to there's an interesting occurrence and

1421
00:56:02,530 --> 00:56:01,250
i'm glad Maynard's here because he

1422
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:02,540
certainly knows the area a little bit

1423
00:56:06,670 --> 00:56:04,250
better than we do Maynard there's an

1424
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:06,680
interesting story about some ghostly

1425
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:09,650
activity up north in the newcastle area

1426
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:11,839
that's right and look the local ABC

1427
00:56:15,370 --> 00:56:14,089
radio station there which I've involved

1428
00:56:16,839 --> 00:56:15,380
with that hasn't been covering this

1429
00:56:19,150 --> 00:56:16,849
story because it's the kind of thing you

1430
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:19,160
don't really want encouraged basically

1431
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:20,930
north of Newcastle there's lemon tree

1432
00:56:26,230 --> 00:56:23,930
passage road which is not very well lit

1433
00:56:28,599 --> 00:56:26,240
it's mainly dark it's very straight

1434
00:56:29,620 --> 00:56:28,609
there are a couple of houses along at

1435
00:56:31,660 --> 00:56:29,630
the might have lights on it but it's

1436
00:56:33,490 --> 00:56:31,670
reasonably dark but having said that

1437
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:33,500
there are a few houses as you would be

1438
00:56:36,970 --> 00:56:35,599
passing but what people claim to be

1439
00:56:38,349 --> 00:56:36,980
doing and there's a couple of videos

1440
00:56:40,900 --> 00:56:38,359
available on YouTube and it's been

1441
00:56:44,589 --> 00:56:40,910
recorded on news condo you I think it

1442
00:56:46,539 --> 00:56:44,599
was if you go 180 kilometers an hour or

1443
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:46,549
faster that's us which i think in miles

1444
00:56:51,010 --> 00:56:48,770
an hour is about 110 miles now that'd be

1445
00:56:53,620 --> 00:56:51,020
about that refer about that we'll find

1446
00:56:56,020 --> 00:56:53,630
out for sure if you go that fast or

1447
00:56:58,059 --> 00:56:56,030
faster you'll see the ghost of a

1448
00:56:59,980 --> 00:56:58,069
motorcyclist approach you from behind

1449
00:57:01,720 --> 00:56:59,990
with his lives on it's a ghost of

1450
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:01,730
apparently a 20 year old kid who was

1451
00:57:04,539 --> 00:57:03,170
killed there three years ago in a

1452
00:57:06,849 --> 00:57:04,549
motorcycle accident now we haven't

1453
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:06,859
checked that but it is indeed possible

1454
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:08,960
but the fact that there's a number of

1455
00:57:13,180 --> 00:57:10,730
videos going up on YouTube about this is

1456
00:57:14,740 --> 00:57:13,190
quite alarming and being the error it is

1457
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:14,750
too it's a straight road if the police

1458
00:57:18,220 --> 00:57:16,730
weren't around you you might get away

1459
00:57:19,660 --> 00:57:18,230
with being able to do that and I can

1460
00:57:20,859 --> 00:57:19,670
that I can understand why few people

1461
00:57:22,539 --> 00:57:20,869
have made the videos you can hear the

1462
00:57:23,980 --> 00:57:22,549
kids getting very excited about it but

1463
00:57:25,809 --> 00:57:23,990
we don't have any idea what it is my

1464
00:57:28,089 --> 00:57:25,819
guess is that it's probably a reflection

1465
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:28,099
in a certain area from what few lights

1466
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:31,130
there are around that area or we'll just

1467
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:33,170
just a one-off but why you have to be

1468
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:35,450
going at 180 to see these reflections I

1469
00:57:40,030 --> 00:57:37,040
don't know it's certainly worth checking

1470
00:57:43,450 --> 00:57:40,040
out but since i drive a VW

1471
00:57:45,130 --> 00:57:43,460
as my car goes 180 three kilometers now

1472
00:57:47,950 --> 00:57:45,140
when it was new ten years ago so I'm

1473
00:57:49,660 --> 00:57:47,960
downhill yeah 11 miles an hour that's

1474
00:57:51,370 --> 00:57:49,670
fast enough and my theories the way have

1475
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:51,380
to be going 180 kilometers now is

1476
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:52,730
because when you're going slowly you can

1477
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:54,170
actually see clearly enough to tell

1478
00:57:58,270 --> 00:57:56,480
pretty obviously exactly what it is yeah

1479
00:57:59,950 --> 00:57:58,280
why don't these could slow down just

1480
00:58:01,600 --> 00:57:59,960
slow the car down put on the brakes and

1481
00:58:04,060 --> 00:58:01,610
keep looking at the light and see that

1482
00:58:05,860 --> 00:58:04,070
because it's magic because the legend is

1483
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:05,870
the ghost is apparently trying to warn

1484
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:07,610
them not to drive dangerously so if

1485
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:09,680
you'd globe below a certain speed you're

1486
00:58:13,540 --> 00:58:11,210
not driving dangerously and the ghost is

1487
00:58:15,790 --> 00:58:13,550
not it just didn't see you anymore that

1488
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:15,800
goes to doing it badly wrong see this is

1489
00:58:20,110 --> 00:58:17,450
the classic urban myth that's gonna get

1490
00:58:22,210 --> 00:58:20,120
people killed this is a very good point

1491
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:22,220
may not in fact I got a letter from our

1492
00:58:26,410 --> 00:58:24,410
good friend Jay novella at the skeptics

1493
00:58:28,030 --> 00:58:26,420
guide to the universe because they've

1494
00:58:30,700 --> 00:58:28,040
had some correspondence about this very

1495
00:58:33,940 --> 00:58:30,710
thing and one of their correspondence is

1496
00:58:36,130 --> 00:58:33,950
written to them I won't go through the

1497
00:58:37,570 --> 00:58:36,140
whole letter but the correspondent is

1498
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:37,580
saying is a young person who has

1499
00:58:42,430 --> 00:58:39,650
recently lost a friend in a car accident

1500
00:58:44,350 --> 00:58:42,440
i am especially saddened by this

1501
00:58:46,930 --> 00:58:44,360
dangerous and stupid behavior which i

1502
00:58:48,550 --> 00:58:46,940
wholeheartedly agree with it's very

1503
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:48,560
dangerous and stupid behavior well i

1504
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:49,970
think this kids are doing that speed

1505
00:58:53,350 --> 00:58:51,290
limit in that area legally would

1506
00:58:55,330 --> 00:58:53,360
probably would we be 80 kilometers maybe

1507
00:58:56,770 --> 00:58:55,340
a hundred kilometers at the most and in

1508
00:58:58,420 --> 00:58:56,780
australia well in new south wales if

1509
00:59:00,280 --> 00:58:58,430
you're going 25 kilometers over the

1510
00:59:02,260 --> 00:59:00,290
limit it's not to make disqualification

1511
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:02,270
for six months so if you're going 180

1512
00:59:06,670 --> 00:59:04,850
and you record at that speed i would

1513
00:59:08,500 --> 00:59:06,680
imagine i don't know how long is lose

1514
00:59:10,660 --> 00:59:08,510
license for but you showed us a video

1515
00:59:12,850 --> 00:59:10,670
before made out of kids having film

1516
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:12,860
destiny that's true i showed you a bit a

1517
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:14,930
bit of a video that kids had filmed from

1518
00:59:17,590 --> 00:59:16,400
the backseat so they were not the driver

1519
00:59:19,300 --> 00:59:17,600
though they were just the passengers in

1520
00:59:20,980 --> 00:59:19,310
the back seat filming what appears to be

1521
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:20,990
some light approaching from behind but

1522
00:59:25,090 --> 00:59:22,640
it is there's a lot of artifacts in the

1523
00:59:27,490 --> 00:59:25,100
video and like i said the road is very

1524
00:59:29,650 --> 00:59:27,500
dark and very straight but there is the

1525
00:59:31,060 --> 00:59:29,660
odd light in the area from a house or

1526
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:31,070
something like that there's not many but

1527
00:59:34,750 --> 00:59:32,960
there might be enough that that could be

1528
00:59:37,060 --> 00:59:34,760
reflecting within the back windscreen in

1529
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:37,070
the car I don't know and that the test

1530
00:59:41,620 --> 00:59:39,410
would be to drive the same area at a

1531
00:59:42,910 --> 00:59:41,630
reasonable speed at around about the

1532
00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:42,920
same time a night and see if there's any

1533
00:59:46,690 --> 00:59:44,480
reflection there but I see but then

1534
00:59:48,130 --> 00:59:46,700
you're getting into Top Gear land if you

1535
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:48,140
want to go driving around 100

1536
00:59:52,090 --> 00:59:50,240
well frankly and do it at night anyway

1537
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:52,100
like that driving quickly at night you

1538
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:54,530
run the risk of running over or bumping

1539
00:59:58,390 --> 00:59:56,480
into a nocturnal animal that's right

1540
00:59:59,590 --> 00:59:58,400
yeah you know that you know yep you

1541
01:00:00,910 --> 00:59:59,600
could be a good scoot over something

1542
01:00:03,010 --> 01:00:00,920
quite easily so this would be something

1543
01:00:04,540 --> 01:00:03,020
like sorry could get attacked by drop

1544
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:04,550
bears yes you could but this is

1545
01:00:08,620 --> 01:00:06,490
something I wouldn't be keen to

1546
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:08,630
investigate and test by driving quickly

1547
01:00:11,710 --> 01:00:09,920
at night because I think that would be

1548
01:00:15,190 --> 01:00:11,720
too dangerous anyway well I think it's

1549
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:15,200
dangerous to test and I volunteer well

1550
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:16,640
to see the thing is I don't think the

1551
01:00:20,830 --> 01:00:18,530
police would even agreed to a 28

1552
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:20,840
allegedly safe test because because they

1553
01:00:24,310 --> 01:00:22,370
just don't want him for any any

1554
01:00:27,910 --> 01:00:24,320
publicity for this because it's not good

1555
01:00:31,420 --> 01:00:27,920
no in fact we strongly discourage anyone

1556
01:00:33,790 --> 01:00:31,430
anyone from being silly enough to speed

1557
01:00:36,430 --> 01:00:33,800
along this particular road at night at

1558
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:36,440
high speed to check if some ridiculous

1559
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:39,050
ghost story is true take it from us it's

1560
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:41,810
not it's not true folks well what the

1561
01:00:46,060 --> 01:00:44,090
local police are saying is and here's a

1562
01:00:47,650 --> 01:00:46,070
quote we want speeding drivers to know

1563
01:00:50,530 --> 01:00:47,660
that the only bright light they'll be

1564
01:00:54,130 --> 01:00:50,540
seeing in their rear windows will be the

1565
01:00:56,350 --> 01:00:54,140
red and blue ones of our police car once

1566
01:00:58,810 --> 01:00:56,360
again my theory knowing the area a

1567
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:58,820
little bit is that it's the reflections

1568
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:01,280
of one of the few houses or lights that

1569
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:02,570
are along that road because it is very

1570
01:01:05,620 --> 01:01:04,370
dark so anything that is in that road is

1571
01:01:08,740 --> 01:01:05,630
probably going to stand out in your

1572
01:01:10,810 --> 01:01:08,750
rear-view mirror anyway well let's

1573
01:01:12,670 --> 01:01:10,820
travel a bit further north to now James

1574
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:12,680
just a little bit further north if we go

1575
01:01:17,950 --> 01:01:16,610
up to Darwin yeah only a couple of

1576
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:17,960
kilometres give or take a street the

1577
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:21,170
australian dollars greg is they don't

1578
01:01:30,340 --> 01:01:22,970
drink and drive they drink while they're

1579
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:30,350
driving hi do all our listeners in

1580
01:01:35,500 --> 01:01:33,290
Darwin okay we all know the attention of

1581
01:01:38,890 --> 01:01:35,510
the octopus the psychic octopus Scott

1582
01:01:40,330 --> 01:01:38,900
for the World Cup Paul yeah also i was

1583
01:01:45,570 --> 01:01:40,340
calling giving suck remember his name

1584
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:45,580
but anyway just name i gave them um

1585
01:01:49,350 --> 01:01:47,680
anyway everybody else is jumping on the

1586
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:49,360
bandwagon now there's animals coming out

1587
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:50,890
left right and center and in Darwin

1588
01:01:54,180 --> 01:01:52,720
there's a croc that's apparently going

1589
01:01:55,410 --> 01:01:54,190
to be able to predict the elections

1590
01:01:59,880 --> 01:01:55,420
that's happening in Australia right now

1591
01:02:02,940 --> 01:01:59,890
is the right word Rock how does it do

1592
01:02:04,830 --> 01:02:02,950
this James by eating the person by

1593
01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:04,840
eating the person that's pretty close

1594
01:02:09,330 --> 01:02:06,640
actually what they do is I get a red

1595
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:09,340
head it's all Julia be long they get

1596
01:02:12,510 --> 01:02:10,930
photos of the two candidates and hang

1597
01:02:15,060 --> 01:02:12,520
some meat down below and whichever one

1598
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:15,070
the crocodile goes for well I'm not too

1599
01:02:18,060 --> 01:02:16,450
sure about this honor whether that's the

1600
01:02:19,710 --> 01:02:18,070
one that the crocodile wants to lose

1601
01:02:21,540 --> 01:02:19,720
because eating at them or whether that's

1602
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:21,550
the one who's going to win right I saw

1603
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:23,650
some votes parameter bias creeping into

1604
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:27,250
this but I the way yeah I the way the

1605
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:28,510
experiment was actually done this

1606
01:02:32,940 --> 01:02:30,370
afternoon and apparently the crocodile

1607
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:32,950
chose Julia Gillard to win so we'll see

1608
01:02:37,650 --> 01:02:34,690
how goes it has actually predicted some

1609
01:02:39,380 --> 01:02:37,660
things in the past um well next week

1610
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:39,390
we'll find out whether do they go yeah

1611
01:02:44,250 --> 01:02:42,130
but polls are pretty comes just going to

1612
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:44,260
win too but look look I think there's

1613
01:03:01,350 --> 01:02:45,730
clear buyers because that crocodile is a

1614
01:03:02,970 --> 01:03:01,360
known socialist anyway they talk about

1615
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:02,980
other things in here that this crocodile

1616
01:03:07,020 --> 01:03:04,690
and the other crocodiles in the same

1617
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:07,030
enclosure have predicted accurately but

1618
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:09,250
of course they fail to mention how many

1619
01:03:16,590 --> 01:03:13,690
things it missed so Shannon you will

1620
01:03:18,330 --> 01:03:16,600
have no leg intended I will it

1621
01:03:22,140 --> 01:03:18,340
apparently got the world cup as well and

1622
01:03:24,450 --> 01:03:22,150
one of its enclosure mates whatever your

1623
01:03:28,770 --> 01:03:24,460
to call them has also predicted that a

1624
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:28,780
single horse race one horse race what so

1625
01:03:43,770 --> 01:03:41,490
predictably which was one one particular

1626
01:03:46,410 --> 01:03:43,780
race but it hasn't I haven't said

1627
01:03:47,830 --> 01:03:46,420
anything about how many predictions they

1628
01:03:51,660 --> 01:03:47,840
got wrong

1629
01:03:55,780 --> 01:03:51,670
anyway let's get let's get back to more

1630
01:03:57,790 --> 01:03:55,790
what's the word esoteric more ethereal

1631
01:04:00,070 --> 01:03:57,800
things may not what do you have for us

1632
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:00,080
well as you may remember I put a call

1633
01:04:04,570 --> 01:04:02,090
out a few weeks ago on this very show

1634
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:04,580
for listeners to send things in a leader

1635
01:04:08,770 --> 01:04:07,130
and Dave Ingram I believe from Brisbane

1636
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:08,780
I think we might be better send this

1637
01:04:28,550 --> 01:04:26,780
and that and we'll deal with that if

1638
01:04:32,300 --> 01:04:28,560
this isn't one look that is in fact not

1639
01:04:34,010 --> 01:04:32,310
a ghost it's a good ghost to me well it

1640
01:04:36,650 --> 01:04:34,020
does sound otherworldly but it is in

1641
01:04:38,900 --> 01:04:36,660
fact um I think the Tomcat that belongs

1642
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:38,910
to Dave Ingram's snoring that is Dave's

1643
01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:41,520
cat snoring now we are listeners the

1644
01:04:46,970 --> 01:04:44,160
challenge is out can your cat beat that

1645
01:04:50,020 --> 01:04:46,980
snore if you have a snoring cat record

1646
01:04:53,090 --> 01:04:50,030
it and send the clip to Maynard out I

1647
01:04:54,890 --> 01:04:53,100
Maynard at manor dot-com that are you

1648
01:04:56,330 --> 01:04:54,900
where you can hear the mad club podcast

1649
01:05:00,620 --> 01:04:56,340
which includes a song where's me jumper

1650
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:00,630
and and the freaky realistic hit call me

1651
01:05:06,530 --> 01:05:02,490
Leonard Nimoy Leonard Nimoy Leonard

1652
01:05:08,780 --> 01:05:06,540
Nimoy great track Thanks that's okay but

1653
01:05:10,490 --> 01:05:08,790
look at but we can't tell people what

1654
01:05:12,290 --> 01:05:10,500
weekend this is this weekend oh yeah

1655
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:12,300
it's very important weekend I mean

1656
01:05:15,350 --> 01:05:14,160
forget the federal election forget all

1657
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:15,360
that forget who's going to be Prime

1658
01:05:19,790 --> 01:05:16,610
Minister there's something far more

1659
01:05:21,620 --> 01:05:19,800
important happening this weekend is fact

1660
01:05:25,730 --> 01:05:21,630
is none other than international

1661
01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:25,740
lighthouse weekend no well that's a look

1662
01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:27,510
but I don't know about anyone out there

1663
01:05:31,670 --> 01:05:29,310
but I have been able to sleep from three

1664
01:05:32,810 --> 01:05:31,680
weeks and I've only known about the

1665
01:05:37,790 --> 01:05:32,820
lighthouse weekend for the last two days

1666
01:05:39,050 --> 01:05:37,800
so chances are might not be it could be

1667
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:39,060
something else i'm doing is keeping me

1668
01:05:41,570 --> 01:05:40,170
awake I don't know but I tell you what

1669
01:05:43,070 --> 01:05:41,580
there's going to be people is gonna be a

1670
01:05:44,690 --> 01:05:43,080
ham radio operator out there

1671
01:05:45,890 --> 01:05:44,700
broadcasting to each other and there's

1672
01:05:47,540 --> 01:05:45,900
people just going to be looking at those

1673
01:05:49,310 --> 01:05:47,550
light out us and do you know listener

1674
01:05:52,820 --> 01:05:49,320
skeptical fact that almost all

1675
01:05:55,610 --> 01:05:52,830
lighthouses are on the coast oh really

1676
01:05:57,590 --> 01:05:55,620
almost all what do you mean by that may

1677
01:05:59,060 --> 01:05:57,600
note well I thought that I there you

1678
01:06:00,560 --> 01:05:59,070
know there might be some smarty bum

1679
01:06:02,630 --> 01:06:00,570
skeptic out there to go well may know

1680
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:02,640
I've got a lighthouse and it'll amore

1681
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:05,010
and in fact um there were our

1682
01:06:09,740 --> 01:06:07,200
lighthouses on inland waterways

1683
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:09,750
occasionally so you can't say they're

1684
01:06:13,070 --> 01:06:11,610
all on the coast just the majority of

1685
01:06:15,290 --> 01:06:13,080
them are on the coast is a safe thing to

1686
01:06:16,700 --> 01:06:15,300
say and also light ships as well hello

1687
01:06:18,380 --> 01:06:16,710
all those people and also see

1688
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:18,390
lighthouses signify a lot of people

1689
01:06:22,130 --> 01:06:20,490
think things at skeptics are see

1690
01:06:23,900 --> 01:06:22,140
lighthouses and skeptics people might

1691
01:06:26,750 --> 01:06:23,910
think go together because lighthouses

1692
01:06:29,150 --> 01:06:26,760
had beards pipes and a lot of loneliness

1693
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:29,160
like my highest lighthouses happen yeah

1694
01:06:32,599 --> 01:06:30,720
yeah well my housekeeper

1695
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:32,609
look everybody I've seen a few bearded

1696
01:06:37,370 --> 01:06:36,090
lighthouse I'm just cuz I get invited to

1697
01:06:39,170 --> 01:06:37,380
better parties in you I just think

1698
01:06:41,630 --> 01:06:39,180
that's true another sort of place you're

1699
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:41,640
going to yeah yeah people are going to

1700
01:06:44,359 --> 01:06:43,290
hang out at lighthouses on on saturday

1701
01:06:45,950 --> 01:06:44,369
and sunday they're going to broadcast

1702
01:06:47,390 --> 01:06:45,960
all messages to each other around the

1703
01:06:49,370 --> 01:06:47,400
world and they're going to celebrate the

1704
01:06:51,710 --> 01:06:49,380
fact of big erect things with lights on

1705
01:06:53,570 --> 01:06:51,720
them are there any myths surrounding

1706
01:06:55,460 --> 01:06:53,580
lighthouses well there's the last big

1707
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:55,470
guys there are I mean and there's a

1708
01:06:58,849 --> 01:06:57,450
particularly very famous for a

1709
01:07:00,710 --> 01:06:58,859
lighthouse called the Jolly Rock

1710
01:07:02,210 --> 01:07:00,720
Lighthouse may not that's right and I

1711
01:07:03,890 --> 01:07:02,220
actually when I do when I did the story

1712
01:07:05,359 --> 01:07:03,900
and I was looking for a little bits of

1713
01:07:06,859 --> 01:07:05,369
musical bits to put into my story I

1714
01:07:08,990 --> 01:07:06,869
found I want to marry a lighthouse

1715
01:07:11,690 --> 01:07:09,000
keeper by Walter Carlos now Wendy Carlos

1716
01:07:14,359 --> 01:07:11,700
from the Clockwork Orange soundtrack I

1717
01:07:16,670 --> 01:07:14,369
found the goodies episode of course the

1718
01:07:18,410 --> 01:07:16,680
Jolly rock lighthouse is a whole skit in

1719
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:18,420
that about the Jolly rock lighthouse and

1720
01:07:21,339 --> 01:07:19,770
it's not a vaccine thing to for the

1721
01:07:23,420 --> 01:07:21,349
skeptics because they get mumps in it

1722
01:07:26,510 --> 01:07:23,430
it's got something for you people than

1723
01:07:28,130 --> 01:07:26,520
us 10u very genuine and of course I did

1724
01:07:32,660 --> 01:07:28,140
include the famous Belinda Carlisle hit

1725
01:07:34,609 --> 01:07:32,670
from 1989 leave a lighthouse for me she

1726
01:07:36,079 --> 01:07:34,619
once up said that every time you listen

1727
01:07:37,670 --> 01:07:36,089
that song from now on you'll think she's

1728
01:07:39,950 --> 01:07:37,680
singing leave a lighthouse for me

1729
01:07:43,579 --> 01:07:39,960
because that's what sounds like leave a

1730
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:43,589
live as for me yeah oh my goodness may

1731
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:45,690
not I think you're right well it is true

1732
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:47,250
and when I think of it mentioned Brian

1733
01:07:51,500 --> 01:07:49,650
darling before we go oh we have to okay

1734
01:07:53,570 --> 01:07:51,510
now my brother is my fav favorite to

1735
01:07:54,890 --> 01:07:53,580
podcast either no agenda which I love

1736
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:54,900
they get into the wild stuff in the

1737
01:07:58,160 --> 01:07:56,490
morning there but yeah when I want the

1738
01:08:00,320 --> 01:07:58,170
science I go to mr. Dunning there and

1739
01:08:02,599 --> 01:08:00,330
skip to it as a show and I've discovered

1740
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:02,609
that his dad used to fly with Ted

1741
01:08:06,620 --> 01:08:04,050
Robertson the senator who was killed

1742
01:08:08,300 --> 01:08:06,630
recently allegedly by the Harper ray

1743
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:08,310
according to no agenda but that's

1744
01:08:13,010 --> 01:08:10,410
another different thing altogether which

1745
01:08:16,249 --> 01:08:13,020
I don't think fits into this show and in

1746
01:08:18,229 --> 01:08:16,259
heat they used to fly Dakota's dc-3s or

1747
01:08:20,660 --> 01:08:18,239
c-47s as I believe the Americans called

1748
01:08:22,999 --> 01:08:20,670
them over the hump to supply the Flying

1749
01:08:24,440 --> 01:08:23,009
Tigers in China during the Second World

1750
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:24,450
War and I think that's amazing the prime

1751
01:08:26,990 --> 01:08:26,250
dad's Brian's death is very interesting

1752
01:08:28,940 --> 01:08:27,000
one

1753
01:08:33,740 --> 01:08:28,950
amazing after the whole sentence I don't

1754
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:33,750
understand a word maybe I maybe I wasn't

1755
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:37,770
enough good Flying Tiger Tiger something

1756
01:08:42,170 --> 01:08:40,290
okay just probably bit of knowledge okay

1757
01:08:43,789 --> 01:08:42,180
yep let's work backwards Flying Tigers

1758
01:08:45,740 --> 01:08:43,799
that was the key Hawks flown by the

1759
01:08:47,059 --> 01:08:45,750
Americans for the Chinese against the

1760
01:08:50,210 --> 01:08:47,069
Japanese during the Second World War

1761
01:08:53,870 --> 01:08:50,220
they were supplied by pilots one of them

1762
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:53,880
being Brian Dunning's dad who flew dc-3s

1763
01:08:58,370 --> 01:08:56,250
the decoder known as the c-47 by the

1764
01:09:00,110 --> 01:08:58,380
Americans over the hump to supply them

1765
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:00,120
so i was just fascinated live the hump

1766
01:09:05,329 --> 01:09:03,170
over the hump which was the Himalayas

1767
01:09:06,380 --> 01:09:05,339
becomes clear and you don't get much

1768
01:09:08,150 --> 01:09:06,390
bigger humps in that I guess

1769
01:09:11,210 --> 01:09:08,160
geographically they're pretty big when

1770
01:09:13,190 --> 01:09:11,220
it comes to hops and yeah so I would

1771
01:09:14,900 --> 01:09:13,200
like to see you know not a bog review

1772
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:14,910
but Brian's dad about the whole thing is

1773
01:09:18,890 --> 01:09:16,290
that sounds kind of interesting folks

1774
01:09:21,079 --> 01:09:18,900
the things you learn on the skeptic zone

1775
01:09:25,460 --> 01:09:21,089
what can I say and I'm not even a

1776
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:25,470
scientist you're a historian today yes

1777
01:09:29,390 --> 01:09:27,690
it's a we're all a fountain each one of

1778
01:09:31,370 --> 01:09:29,400
us is a fountain of endless knowledge I

1779
01:09:33,140 --> 01:09:31,380
sometimes think including dr. H II

1780
01:09:36,249 --> 01:09:33,150
because last week we were talking about

1781
01:09:38,690 --> 01:09:36,259
the election and we were talking about

1782
01:09:40,999 --> 01:09:38,700
political well political parties that

1783
01:09:42,980 --> 01:09:41,009
might be appropriate for skeptics to

1784
01:09:44,420 --> 01:09:42,990
perhaps align with in vote for and I

1785
01:09:45,860 --> 01:09:44,430
said that I didn't know anything about

1786
01:09:48,340 --> 01:09:45,870
the secular party so I didn't know if

1787
01:09:51,620 --> 01:09:48,350
they're really good boolean Bryce is

1788
01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:51,630
running as a senator well I do apologize

1789
01:09:55,130 --> 01:09:53,490
for inferring that they weren't any good

1790
01:09:56,480 --> 01:09:55,140
I didn't mean they're no good I just

1791
01:09:58,790 --> 01:09:56,490
meant I don't know anything about their

1792
01:10:01,040 --> 01:09:58,800
policies so I students had a chat with

1793
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:01,050
ian bryce who is running in New South

1794
01:10:07,550 --> 01:10:03,930
Wales and they do have very Pro science

1795
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:07,560
you know pro evidence-based policies so

1796
01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:09,930
if people want to know more about the

1797
01:10:12,770 --> 01:10:11,520
secular party just google them and you

1798
01:10:14,900 --> 01:10:12,780
can find out about their policies

1799
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:14,910
because saturday so we advise all our

1800
01:10:18,770 --> 01:10:16,530
listeners to carefully consider their

1801
01:10:20,900 --> 01:10:18,780
voting choices this weekend that go to

1802
01:10:22,310 --> 01:10:20,910
below the line the log today you yes now

1803
01:10:23,900 --> 01:10:22,320
this is a great thing because in the

1804
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:23,910
Australian Federal Election if you vote

1805
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:25,440
below the line you have to number all

1806
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:27,450
the numbers 12 84 in your preference and

1807
01:10:30,590 --> 01:10:28,890
this is a bit daunting I did this as a

1808
01:10:32,060 --> 01:10:30,600
postal ballot and I couldn't get another

1809
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:32,070
one if i mucked it up sales a bit scared

1810
01:10:35,450 --> 01:10:34,080
but you've got this great website just

1811
01:10:37,060 --> 01:10:35,460
mentioned and what's advantage you can

1812
01:10:40,910 --> 01:10:37,070
do it i've used it to you

1813
01:10:42,860 --> 01:10:40,920
are we they list out all the candidates

1814
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:42,870
quite easily for you can go to you can

1815
01:10:47,689 --> 01:10:44,489
select whether you want your preferences

1816
01:10:49,550 --> 01:10:47,699
to be based on how the Greens to their

1817
01:10:51,919 --> 01:10:49,560
preferences by liberals by labor and

1818
01:10:54,169 --> 01:10:51,929
list them all out for you top to bottom

1819
01:10:57,140 --> 01:10:54,179
one through at 84 you can reorganize

1820
01:10:59,149 --> 01:10:57,150
them there in a nice easy to see list

1821
01:11:00,350 --> 01:10:59,159
like that yeah and then you can print up

1822
01:11:02,149 --> 01:11:00,360
a sheet that looks pretty much exactly

1823
01:11:03,830 --> 01:11:02,159
like the ballot papers so that when you

1824
01:11:05,750 --> 01:11:03,840
go in to vote where you need to do is

1825
01:11:07,100 --> 01:11:05,760
fill it out in the exact same way all

1826
01:11:09,169 --> 01:11:07,110
right so I can school when you went into

1827
01:11:14,090 --> 01:11:09,179
an examine you had the answers written

1828
01:11:15,979 --> 01:11:14,100
on your leg it's just like that and 84

1829
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:15,989
on your leg is a bit much listeners very

1830
01:11:19,189 --> 01:11:17,520
long length yeah you have got long legs

1831
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:19,199
this is outside of Australia may be

1832
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:23,010
interested to discover that for the

1833
01:11:27,260 --> 01:11:24,449
Australian citizens is actually

1834
01:11:28,939 --> 01:11:27,270
compulsory for us to turn up at our

1835
01:11:32,180 --> 01:11:28,949
election place and have our name ticked

1836
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:32,190
off we don't actually have to write

1837
01:11:36,350 --> 01:11:34,530
anything on the ballot you can leave it

1838
01:11:37,790 --> 01:11:36,360
blank and shove it in but we have to

1839
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:37,800
turn up and have our name ticked off at

1840
01:11:41,390 --> 01:11:39,570
least you can draw something obscene if

1841
01:11:43,070 --> 01:11:41,400
you like my mom actually counts vote

1842
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:43,080
since you said a lot of penises in her

1843
01:11:55,490 --> 01:11:51,570
time got a job though what a job that is

1844
01:12:03,680 --> 01:11:55,500
no joke dr. reaches mum bring them all

1845
01:12:06,050 --> 01:12:03,690
back in polling poor mini before we get

1846
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:06,060
on to our last item there from joke and

1847
01:12:11,209 --> 01:12:08,010
I hang on upside of the unicorn here I

1848
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:11,219
want to I will not be denied oh no

1849
01:12:15,649 --> 01:12:13,290
I'm wait a second this is testable

1850
01:12:17,630 --> 01:12:15,659
evidence ok now 20 you go 20 years ago

1851
01:12:19,490 --> 01:12:17,640
there was a major non-scientific hit in

1852
01:12:22,100 --> 01:12:19,500
this country by an artist called guru

1853
01:12:25,790 --> 01:12:22,110
Josh infinity was a song otherwise known

1854
01:12:27,530 --> 01:12:25,800
as 1990 time for guru now I'm showing

1855
01:12:29,419 --> 01:12:27,540
this photo here what I believe to be

1856
01:12:31,700 --> 01:12:29,429
what guru just looks like 20 years later

1857
01:12:34,250 --> 01:12:31,710
doing some roofing work near where I

1858
01:12:35,959 --> 01:12:34,260
work now look I think that's guru josh

1859
01:12:37,220 --> 01:12:35,969
appearing on today tonight anonymized

1860
01:12:39,050 --> 01:12:37,230
with a light him in the background

1861
01:12:40,459 --> 01:12:39,060
behind well look i had taken quickly

1862
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:40,469
with the iphone because i was one foot

1863
01:12:42,890 --> 01:12:41,850
away from the guy who bought us i'm just

1864
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,900
taking a photo a vehicle i think you

1865
01:12:46,740 --> 01:12:44,880
look like a 1990s raver probably

1866
01:12:49,290 --> 01:12:46,750
wouldn't work but he's wearing a 19-8

1867
01:12:51,060 --> 01:12:49,300
nine ravers hat he's got a fluoro shirt

1868
01:12:52,470 --> 01:12:51,070
and look he does look like he's been

1869
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:52,480
through a bit there in the last 20 years

1870
01:12:58,160 --> 01:12:54,370
so i think i had the only known photo of

1871
01:13:00,630 --> 01:12:58,170
guru josh today goodness 11 of heavens I

1872
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:00,640
told you wear nothing but fountains of

1873
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:02,770
knowledge now listeners may want to

1874
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:05,530
visit an interesting blog called code

1875
01:13:11,250 --> 01:13:08,890
Nick's blog code nixdorf blog random

1876
01:13:14,580 --> 01:13:11,260
jottings about IT science and critical

1877
01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:14,590
thinking and that's HTTP colon slash

1878
01:13:23,340 --> 01:13:20,080
slash blog code Nick's ni x or good Joe

1879
01:13:25,950 --> 01:13:23,350
The Skeptical nerves yes um I came

1880
01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:25,960
across a curious article on a website

1881
01:13:30,810 --> 01:13:28,480
called Democrat chronicle com which is

1882
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:30,820
apparently a long-running newspaper in

1883
01:13:38,490 --> 01:13:35,410
the new york state area been around for

1884
01:13:41,070 --> 01:13:38,500
over a hundred years anyway this piece

1885
01:13:42,930 --> 01:13:41,080
was written by someone by the name of

1886
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:42,940
lismore who is the director of

1887
01:13:49,140 --> 01:13:44,530
integrative medicine at clifton springs

1888
01:13:53,100 --> 01:13:49,150
hospital in ontario county it's awful

1889
01:13:54,270 --> 01:13:53,110
it's you know but when i get into it you

1890
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:54,280
there's really not much this

1891
01:13:58,140 --> 01:13:56,530
particularly different from any of the

1892
01:14:03,150 --> 01:13:58,150
other nonsense that we've talked about

1893
01:14:05,790 --> 01:14:03,160
about ruin Achmed but what really just

1894
01:14:09,210 --> 01:14:05,800
got me giggling with this one is um that

1895
01:14:12,110 --> 01:14:09,220
this is specifically to do with current

1896
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:12,120
you know state of war that America is in

1897
01:14:18,330 --> 01:14:16,090
and lays more article is called health

1898
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:18,340
check-up the importance of special

1899
01:14:27,420 --> 01:14:25,090
medicine closes what the Special

1900
01:14:30,150 --> 01:14:27,430
Olympics again it and I'll read to you

1901
01:14:31,980 --> 01:14:30,160
directly what what lismore says he says

1902
01:14:33,870 --> 01:14:31,990
when we are at war we use both

1903
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:33,880
conventional forces and unconventional

1904
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:36,490
forces conventional forces battled

1905
01:14:40,440 --> 01:14:38,770
directly against the enemy while Special

1906
01:14:42,780 --> 01:14:40,450
Forces teach the host nation how to

1907
01:14:45,690 --> 01:14:42,790
defend itself well actually as

1908
01:14:48,450 --> 01:14:45,700
militarily not quite good no no it's not

1909
01:15:00,110 --> 01:14:48,460
but we'll keep going it is the same with

1910
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:05,640
yes there is one we have we have

1911
01:15:10,110 --> 01:15:07,510
conventional medicine which battles

1912
01:15:13,140 --> 01:15:10,120
diseases directly and unconventional or

1913
01:15:16,310 --> 01:15:13,150
special medicine helps the body finest

1914
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:16,320
own diseases he then goes on to further

1915
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:19,090
compare and explain how special medicine

1916
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:20,770
is everything we know like old med

1917
01:15:24,900 --> 01:15:22,570
integrative medicine whatever you want

1918
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:24,910
to call it but he then goes on to

1919
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:28,570
describe how special medicine is being

1920
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:32,080
used by the military today huh there was

1921
01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:34,410
a quack cast about this real battlefield

1922
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:37,510
acupuncture I have no yeah actually I'm

1923
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:39,610
betting in fact this must tie in very

1924
01:15:45,690 --> 01:15:42,250
closely ah-ha Tom's been blown off stick

1925
01:15:47,370 --> 01:15:45,700
small needle in it well yeah according

1926
01:15:49,410 --> 01:15:47,380
to lismore the US military is using

1927
01:15:51,870 --> 01:15:49,420
acupuncture for pain management on

1928
01:15:54,690 --> 01:15:51,880
amputees and burn patients are returning

1929
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:54,700
from Afghanistan and Iraq the US Army

1930
01:15:58,760 --> 01:15:56,650
has a center that focuses on integrative

1931
01:16:01,020 --> 01:15:58,770
medicine for soldiers and family use

1932
01:16:02,700 --> 01:16:01,030
nutritional and botanical supplements

1933
01:16:05,460 --> 01:16:02,710
are used to enhance performance of

1934
01:16:07,350 --> 01:16:05,470
combat soldiers Special Forces soldiers

1935
01:16:09,180 --> 01:16:07,360
are using acupuncture in war zones to

1936
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:09,190
help other soldiers maintain health and

1937
01:16:12,900 --> 01:16:11,410
combat readiness and veterans are using

1938
01:16:14,670 --> 01:16:12,910
special medicine for health and stress

1939
01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:14,680
recovery you know people are driving

1940
01:16:19,290 --> 01:16:16,450
while they listen to this joke I know

1941
01:16:21,710 --> 01:16:19,300
I'm sorry um he then goes on to talk

1942
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:21,720
about organizations like is now

1943
01:16:30,990 --> 01:16:28,930
acupuncturists Without Borders as well

1944
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:31,000
and naturopaths Without Borders and home

1945
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:37,910
you're gonna love this one some of these

1946
01:16:41,660 --> 01:16:39,690
organizations are able to build better

1947
01:16:43,220 --> 01:16:41,670
immediate rapport with the people they

1948
01:16:45,260 --> 01:16:43,230
are working with that organizations

1949
01:16:47,980 --> 01:16:45,270
using conventional medicine because of

1950
01:16:50,630 --> 01:16:47,990
similarities to traditional medicine

1951
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:50,640
argument from antiquity what I don't

1952
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:52,650
arguments a whole new one it's a home

1953
01:16:58,550 --> 01:16:56,130
you on all arguments d better yeah um he

1954
01:17:00,350 --> 01:16:58,560
finishes off by saying at both tactical

1955
01:17:01,910 --> 01:17:00,360
and strategic levels the US military

1956
01:17:03,370 --> 01:17:01,920
will continue to expand its use of

1957
01:17:05,390 --> 01:17:03,380
special medicine in military operations

1958
01:17:07,730 --> 01:17:05,400
stability operations and nation

1959
01:17:09,110 --> 01:17:07,740
rebuilding our response to disaster and

1960
01:17:10,970 --> 01:17:09,120
providing of disaster relief will

1961
01:17:13,310 --> 01:17:10,980
continue to include and expand upon the

1962
01:17:16,190 --> 01:17:13,320
use of special medicine our own homeland

1963
01:17:18,050 --> 01:17:16,200
security will depend upon our ability to

1964
01:17:19,670 --> 01:17:18,060
investigate and implement special

1965
01:17:24,500 --> 01:17:19,680
medicine for its quick response to

1966
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:24,510
security issues note to self when taking

1967
01:17:33,650 --> 01:17:31,770
over the world attack America first well

1968
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:33,660
don't worry because by the way this is

1969
01:17:40,790 --> 01:17:35,850
going they'll be holding the infamous

1970
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:40,800
bomb detectors when you get well I read

1971
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:42,690
a wide magazine article that is

1972
01:17:45,770 --> 01:17:44,010
completely off topic could anyone like

1973
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:45,780
to hear but it was all they go okay that

1974
01:17:49,730 --> 01:17:47,370
if you that was a little interesting

1975
01:17:53,420 --> 01:17:49,740
nugget that if they you could have built

1976
01:17:55,580 --> 01:17:53,430
an iPod in 1976 if you wanted to but it

1977
01:17:57,640 --> 01:17:55,590
would have cost 1 billion dollars and

1978
01:17:59,900 --> 01:17:57,650
would have been the size of a house and

1979
01:18:01,160 --> 01:17:59,910
that they worked out that you could get

1980
01:18:02,570 --> 01:18:01,170
the you could have got the parts

1981
01:18:04,730 --> 01:18:02,580
to do it you could have got to work in

1982
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:04,740
the same way but in 1976 it would have

1983
01:18:07,730 --> 01:18:06,090
cost 1 billion dollars would have been

1984
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:07,740
the size of a house and I told it to an

1985
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:09,210
engineer and he said we'll look that's

1986
01:18:13,310 --> 01:18:11,130
for the parts and the size he said but

1987
01:18:15,170 --> 01:18:13,320
to get the cabling run and everything

1988
01:18:16,820 --> 01:18:15,180
between all the components it probably

1989
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:16,830
wouldn't have worked because this is

1990
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:18,330
because the run would have been too long

1991
01:18:21,620 --> 01:18:20,010
between all the components for to ever

1992
01:18:23,420 --> 01:18:21,630
work so I think that's very interesting

1993
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:23,430
like you're sure you could have mocked

1994
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:25,410
it up but got it working well you're not

1995
01:18:34,310 --> 01:18:32,250
the man himself I'm gonna leave I'm

1996
01:18:36,410 --> 01:18:34,320
gonna leave the think tank through in

1997
01:18:39,110 --> 01:18:36,420
ruptures main odd person

1998
01:18:41,150 --> 01:18:39,120
all losing the plot tonight but I'd like

1999
01:18:43,220 --> 01:18:41,160
to thank in no particular order yourself

2000
01:18:44,780 --> 01:18:43,230
thank you very much I thank you check

2001
01:18:47,300 --> 01:18:44,790
out mint.com that are you for some

2002
01:18:50,500 --> 01:18:47,310
interesting podcast material where I'd

2003
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:50,510
like to thank don't add doctor dr. rachy

2004
01:18:56,150 --> 01:18:54,480
dr. heu thank you dr. a cheap I'd like

2005
01:18:57,560 --> 01:18:56,160
to thank Nurse Joy the skeptical nurse

2006
01:18:59,090 --> 01:18:57,570
thank you Richard can I just say

2007
01:19:01,100 --> 01:18:59,100
something before we go two things

2008
01:19:04,250 --> 01:19:01,110
actually I would just I would just like

2009
01:19:07,910 --> 01:19:04,260
to remind everyone that as of now there

2010
01:19:09,140 --> 01:19:07,920
are 98 sleeps until town Australia so

2011
01:19:11,330 --> 01:19:09,150
that's very exciting and the other thing

2012
01:19:15,740 --> 01:19:11,340
I just wanted to say before we go is um

2013
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:15,750
other than a fine for me I am we wanted

2014
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:18,170
to give a shout out to our good friend

2015
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:22,410
George Rev from geologic podcast we've

2016
01:19:28,340 --> 01:19:25,170
all been listening to his fabulous

2017
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:28,350
record trebuchet I've got it on replay

2018
01:19:31,550 --> 01:19:30,449
you'll be pleased to know SGU I'm very

2019
01:19:33,020 --> 01:19:31,560
sorry I'm no longer cleaning

2020
01:19:34,970 --> 01:19:33,030
kaleidoscopes well as lead to you i'm

2021
01:19:37,820 --> 01:19:34,980
now listening to and believe in

2022
01:19:40,459 --> 01:19:37,830
horoscopes but anyone who hasn't bought

2023
01:19:42,169 --> 01:19:40,469
a copy of Gio's fabulous record

2024
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:42,179
trebuchet just go to geologic podcast

2025
01:19:46,220 --> 01:19:44,370
calm to find a copy absolutely in jail

2026
01:19:47,419 --> 01:19:46,230
we're going to be seeing you dr. H and

2027
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:47,429
I'll be seeing you in just a few weeks

2028
01:19:51,290 --> 01:19:48,570
and we look forward to seeing you out

2029
01:19:55,550 --> 01:19:51,300
here in Australia to Jason thanks for

2030
01:19:57,709 --> 01:19:55,560
coming on thanks for the lulz and James

2031
01:19:59,150 --> 01:19:57,719
thank you and actually I've got one

2032
01:20:01,340 --> 01:19:59,160
thing I'd like to say quickly as well

2033
01:20:03,919 --> 01:20:01,350
yeah it's just a little bone to pick

2034
01:20:07,250 --> 01:20:03,929
with somebody in the schedule community

2035
01:20:10,250 --> 01:20:07,260
last Sunday evening rebecca watson from

2036
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:10,260
SGU she um she had a little go at sheep

2037
01:20:16,189 --> 01:20:12,890
which i'm not exactly very happy about

2038
01:20:18,380 --> 01:20:16,199
she tweeted and i quote from afar sheep

2039
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:18,390
will quite huggable but i bet up close

2040
01:20:26,030 --> 01:20:21,330
it's all hoobs lice and poo now do you

2041
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:26,040
see it is to me is it I'm not on that

2042
01:20:36,820 --> 01:20:29,130
interesting note do you think shout out

2043
01:21:14,230 --> 01:20:40,160
is good job what were all those cats

2044
01:21:19,940 --> 01:21:16,670
thank you for listening to this week's

2045
01:21:22,130 --> 01:21:19,950
episode of the skeptic zone one more

2046
01:21:24,770 --> 01:21:22,140
episode to come out before dr. reach and

2047
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:24,780
I jump on that plane and head over to

2048
01:21:29,480 --> 01:21:27,210
well first we're stopping briefly in

2049
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:29,490
California and then we're making our way

2050
01:21:34,730 --> 01:21:32,610
to Atlanta Georgia for dragoncon and of

2051
01:21:36,410 --> 01:21:34,740
course Kylie Sturgis from all the way

2052
01:21:39,710 --> 01:21:36,420
from Perth will be making her way to

2053
01:21:41,630 --> 01:21:39,720
dragoncon to fabulous times i'm sure and

2054
01:21:44,270 --> 01:21:41,640
i hope that if you're going to dragoncon

2055
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:44,280
that you come up and say hello you'll

2056
01:21:49,130 --> 01:21:46,770
have plenty of opportunity until then

2057
01:21:54,740 --> 01:21:49,140
this is Richard Saunders signing off

2058
01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:54,750
from Sydney Australia you've been

2059
01:22:01,580 --> 01:21:57,090
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

2060
01:22:04,070 --> 01:22:01,590
website at www skeptics on TV the

2061
01:22:06,440 --> 01:22:04,080
comments contacts and extra video

2062
01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:06,450
reports

2063
01:22:17,910 --> 01:22:09,450
our skin